Trump Campaign Gets Laughed Out Of Court For Claiming A Bunch Of Unvetted Webform Submissions Is 'Evidence' Of Voter Fraud
from the who-needs-sworn-statements-when-you-have-a-CAPTCHA dept
The Trump Campaign is back in court, hoping to reclaim a presidency Donald Trump has lost. It spent plenty of time in court prior to the election, hoping to prevent as many people as possible from voting. Now, it’s doing the same thing, insisting (without evidence) there’s voter fraud everywhere.
Immediately following Election Day, the Trump campaign opened its own voter fraud hotlines. People who thought they observed voting fraud were encouraged to call the campaign or submit sworn statements via a handful of websites. Both offerings were immediately swamped by pranksters and other non-fans of Trump, tying up phone lines and filling the webform coffers with useless things like, say, the script from “Bee Movie.”
Undeterred by a lack of credible fraud accusations, the Trump campaign still attempted to submit some of its mostly unvetted webform garbage as “evidence” in its Arizona lawsuit. As Adam Klasfield reports, the judge wasn’t impressed by the campaign’s attempt to portray a bunch of statements from internet randos as something worth the court’s time and attention.
A Trump campaign attorney conceded in court on Thursday morning that he tried to enter hundreds of dodgy form-filed affidavits into evidence, even though their own investigation found that a subset of the sworn statements that they received were filled with lies and “spam.”
“This is concerning,” Judge Daniel Kiley, from Arizona’s Maricopa County, remarked with some understatement.
This wasn’t the only laughable assertion by Trump campaign attorney, Kory Langhofer. On the record and in front of a judge, Langhofer said the campaign was confident it had weeded out bot submissions because the site had a CAPTCHA.
Then he got even stupider by claiming the narratives the Trump campaign couldn’t immediately disprove must be truthful representations. Not being able to prove something is a lie isn’t the same thing as finding it to be true, the judge pointed out.
Judge Kiley replied that this did not show the remaining affidavits are trustworthy.
“That just shows you cannot disprove what’s asserted,” Kiley noted.
Then, despite entering the legal arena to dispute alleged fraud, the Trump attorney said it was unlikely anyone actually engaged in fraud.
“This is not a fraud case,” Langhofer said, casting the lawsuit instead as allegations of flaws within the voting system. “It is not a stealing-the-election case.”
It appears the Trump campaign’s lawyer isn’t getting the talking points memos. There have been wild, widespread accusations of voter fraud from both the outgoing president and many of his administration figureheads, which for some reason include his children and his children’s spouses.
The Trump campaign thinks a webform and a hotline that will coddle conspiracy theorists when not swamped by pranksters is going to help it win back an election. Good luck with that. But it will make for some great popcorn munching as the campaign and its attorneys continue to embarrass themselves in courtrooms around the nation until every last avenue for redress has been (in all senses of the word) exhausted.
Filed Under: donald trump, election, evidence, fraud hotline, trump campaign, voting, webform
Comments on “Trump Campaign Gets Laughed Out Of Court For Claiming A Bunch Of Unvetted Webform Submissions Is 'Evidence' Of Voter Fraud”
In the Detroit case Trump’s lawyer managed to submit several hundred normal affidavits. Why couldn’t they do the same here?
I mean, the same of true of a normal affidavit. But with a normal affidavit is made under oath, and has some third party verify that the person is who they say they are.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re:
Trump’s problem is that he put buffoon Rudy Giuliani in charge of the legal actions disputing the Election procedures.
That guarantees failure.
There were many serious and valid "irregularities" in the Election that could swing the results — but they must be legally pursued in a calm, objective, andmethodical manner.
Note that in the 2000 Presidential election, the Gore camp fought a highly aggressive court and media publicity battle disputing the election results.
The media supported those efforts — and did not condemn Gore for not quickly conceding to Bush.
The offical election vote count was not certified until December 3rd.
The Media double-standard is obvious.
Re: Re: Re:
To be fair….
Gorw did not publcially say we needed total on election night. And he did not say it was rigged months before.
Re: Re: Re:
And he never said he would refuse to accept the results of the election unless he won.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
and in the Presidential Debates, Biden firmly stated he would not declare victory until the vote was certified by an independent agency
Re: Re: Re:3
With a five million vote lead in the national popular vote that is spread out amongst multiple states and and an electoral vote lead that shows no signs of being thrown out by either recounts or Trump’s crybaby legal shenanigans, Biden claiming victory without fully certified results is well within his rights. He is the president-elect until and unless someone can offer proof of widescale voter fraud that leaned in his favor.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
you have no way of knowing the true, valid vote count.
you are merely making assumptions based on incomplete and suspect fourth hand information
Re: Re: Re:5
You have no way of proving widescale voter fraud to the extent that throwing out the fradulent votes would swing the election in favor of Trump. You’re merely parroting the words of a sociopathic fascist manchild who can’t accept losing at anything and will try to take the country down with him under “if I can’t have it, no one will” logic.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Gorw did not publcially say we needed total on election night. And he did not say it was rigged months before."
He also conceded the fight despite having very good standing to continue the fight, with the battle ultimately coming down to a single state where his opponent’s brother was the governor and a great deal of "hanging chad" votes were being rejected at a rate that disproportionately affected minority votes.
That bears no similarity to the guy who got trounced in multiple states and lost the popular vote, but is tweeting from his bunker about how fraud he can’t prove must have happened for reasons.
Re: Re:
Trump’s problem is that his legal team, no matter who is a part of it, has yet to produce any proof of voter fraud in any state where they’ve filed these lawsuits. Who leads the team is irrelevant if the team itself can’t back up their claims.
Could the team produce proof of voter fraud? Sure. Could they produce enough proof of voter fraud at a scale so large that it could/would change the results of the election in any given state? No. The states put far too many checks in their systems to ensure the security of the vote.
Who won the election shouldn’t matter if you believe the process is corrupt because under that mindset, either candidate will have won through a corrupted process. So if you think the entire electoral process is corrupt, for what reason should you have trusted it if the election had gone in favor of Trump?
Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Trump’s problem is that his legal team, no matter who is a part of it, has yet to produce any proof of voter fraud in any state where they’ve filed these lawsuits."
They’ve provided "proof". Which is to say, they have a bunch of random anecdotes that convince some of the less intelligent base, and that’s the only crowd Trump has been trying to talk to while he was slowly killing them anyway.
"Who won the election shouldn’t matter if you believe the process is corrupt because under that mindset, either candidate will have won through a corrupted process."
Exactly. If enough fraud happened to have caused Biden to have won both the popular vote by 5 million votes and the EC by such a large margin, the entire system is gone. The US have invaded countries over less corrupt elections than the Trump team is claiming the just went through, and the last thing you’re allow in such a situation is the guy claiming it’s corrupt to stay in office unchallenged.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Trump’s problem is that his legal team, no matter who is a part of it, has yet to produce any indication of voter fraud in any state where they’ve filed these lawsuits."
Fixed that for you. If only it was proof he was lacking this wouldn’t be quite so pathetic. But the reasons for the lawsuits he has given…
Republicans not present to verify the voting – turned out to be outright lying.
A produced post-it note from an unknown source stating an unidentified person had seen another unidentified person putting two ballots in the box.
"Witnesses" saying they had observed "bad things" happening – who could not be named, shown, presented to the court, or anything else indicating it was something other than "some guy in a pub dun told me dem democrats would be cheatin’".
What’s next, a crayon drawing of a black man putting a fistful of ballots in a box with a diabolical grin? Kenneth Copeland receiving a message from on high that the dems have stuffed the ballot boxes while laughing in tongues?
Before you even get to where actual proof is required you first need a case. And a case needs more than just going before a judge and screaming "Some guy I don’t know told me he saw libtards stuffing ballot boxes in a place I don’t recall while we were in a pub I can’t remember!"
Gore was able to state concrete reasons about one specific state where the governor had a proven vested interest in his opponent winning. I’d say that’s fair grounds for a closer look.
Claiming republicans weren’t present to monitor proceedings while, in fact, they were, is not.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Voter Fraud" is much different than the big category of "Election Fraud".
The legal case is quite strong in Pennsylvania that partisan court judges illegally chamged State voting law to extend the deadline for receipt of mail ballots.
The US Supreme Court seemed quite interested in this legal issue.
This issue alone could make Trump the winner.
Re: Re: Re:2 More counted votes => more democracy.
I’ld say that extending that specific deadline means that more citizens can have their voice in this election. So, it is good for democracy.
Re: Re: Re:3 More counted votes => more democracy.
Yeah, but not so good for Trump’s GOP, and when presented with the choice of ‘democracy’ and ‘maintaining power for the GOP’ they’ve made crystal clear which they give priority.
Re: Re: Re:4 More counted votes => more democracy.
You should not paint all the Republicans with the same brush… There are several that have recognized that Donald lost and some have even publicly asked "Mr. Pres." to play nicely in the handover.
Puts the other brush in the anti-democratic fascist paint
Re: Re: Re:5 Oh look, the rats are jumping ship...
Eh, I kinda lost all interest in playing ‘nice’ or giving any benefit of the doubt when it comes to that lot after four years of them backing Trump to the hilt, but I suppose I can narrow my statement to only cover those who are just as delusional, corrupt and desperate as Trump and refuse to accept reality.
Re: Re: Re:5 More counted votes => more democracy.
"You should not paint all the Republicans with the same brush…"
They’ve spent four years being the silent or actively approving accomplices. So yes. Yes, we should. After Trump’s first few atrocities the republicans who did not speak up and change their party became the silent accomplice.
Bridging the gap? Why? Why would anyone want to bridge the gap to people so horrible they consider racism, bigotry and fascism acceptable as long as it came with the goodies they wanted? Why would you even want to know someone like that, or admit such people in your circle?
Re: Re: Re:6 More counted votes => more democracy.
Let’s be fair for just a moment here: not all of them have. Mitt Romney, for example, has been outspoken in his lack of support for Trump and voted to convict him in the impeachment.
Re: Re: Re:2
Ah, cool, so you’re okay with the Supreme Court disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of voters out of partisanship. Thanks for letting us know you want the system rigged in favor of Dear Leader!
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
The problem you have is that in Pennsylvania the votes in question are already segregated from the rest and haven’t been included in the reported counts. So if Trump wins his case there and gets those ballots thrown out, the results remain unchanged and Biden is the winner.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
This issue alone could make Trump the winner.
Just to be clear: that issue alone could NOT make Trump the winner. Even if you discount all of the ballots received in the extended deadline, Trump still loses the electoral college.
Re: Re: Re:
"Trump’s problem is that he put buffoon Rudy Giuliani in charge of the legal actions disputing the Election procedures"
No, Trump’s problem is that he was the most credible person he had available to do it. If there was better evidence he wouldn’t need to depend on the guy who mistook a landscaping company for a luxury hotel because he was too tired trying it on with Borat’s plants.
"The media supported those efforts — and did not condemn Gore for not quickly conceding to Bush."
Because the fight basically came down to Florida, where W’s brother just happened to be the governor, and Gore had won the popular vote, albeit by a narrow margin.
That is nothing like the election where Trump got trounced in multiple states and got beaten by 5 million popular votes overall.
"The Media double-standard is obvious."
To people who ignore context and reality, sure.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
"No, Trump’s problem is that he was the most credible person he had available to do it. If there was better evidence he wouldn’t need to depend on the guy who mistook a landscaping company for a luxury hotel because he was too tired trying it on with Borat’s plants."
In all fairness I found that the imagery of Giuliani standing before a landscaper’s loading dock right between a crematorium and an adult toy store was a very credible presentation of Giuliani.
Re: Re: Re:2
Ah yes, the new phrase for someone’s complete downfall: between the crematorium and the dildo store.
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
A modern-day "between a rock and a hard place".
Re: Re: Re:4
Or as I saw it said elsewhere: “Between a cock and a charred place.”
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
When there’s more dildos next to the dildo store than inside it…
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
I actually watched poor old Rudy try to carry the day for his Dear Leader. It sounded as if he ran out of battery charge about halfway through.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
"In all fairness I found that the imagery of Giuliani standing before a landscaper’s loading dock right between a crematorium and an adult toy store was a very credible presentation of Giuliani."
Perhaps the best, but not in the way his fans think it it…
Re: Re: Re:
You forgot to add that the dispute was in Florida by only a few hundred votes, not by thousands of votes. Its called math
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Exactly. Hundreds of votes in one states vs hundreds of thousands in multiple states. There’s no comparison
Re: Re: Re:
Hello Mr. Paid Troll.
There were few real voting irregularities, almost all of the real ones in favor of the Republicans, but still were not enough to directly swing the vote. Although if you count add on effects of the voter suppression efforts in NC, it may have been enough.
The main 3 well documented true cases:
1) A group of democratic voters in NC was pepper sprayed on it’s way to the polls by the police. How many of them failed to vote afterwards is not known. How many additional voters stayed home because of this is unknown.
2) The post office decommissioned many of the mail processing machines before the election and was unable to deliver thousands of ballots on time. They post office also ignored a court ordered requiring them to put extra effort into making sure ballots were delivered on time. A vast majority of the mail in ballots were cast by democrats. So democrats were likely disproportionately effected.
3) A man in Pennsylvania attempted to get an absentee ballot for his dead mother so she could vote for Trump postumasely. He was caught and arrested.
Usually all the claims of dead people voting turn out to be a poll worker having marked off the wrong person as having voted. This election has been different. All of the claims of dead people voting and registering to vote so far this election have been peole with the same name as a dead person voting or registering to vote. This just shows how little the current Republican party cares about the truth. They can’t even be bothered to figure out which John Smith voted, the one who is alive, or the one who is dead.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Talking to yourself?
Re: Re: Re:
Here’s one major difference: the electoral college vote in 2000 was close enough that one state’s (Florida in that election) electoral votes could change the result. That’s not the case here: the results in multiple states would have to change for Trump to win.
Additionally, none of the states’ individual margins (not even Georgia’s) are anywhere near as close as Florida’s was in 2000 where a recount would feasibly make a difference. Furthermore, the issues in that election were more widely accepted as existing by both sides than in this election.
It is well established by legal, political, and historical scholars that if it wasn’t for the Supreme Court stopping the recount in Florida, Gore had a very good chance of winning the 2000 election. Legal and political scholars largely agree that none of the legal challenges or recounts in this election have any real chance of changing the results. Biden’s lead in the key states is too wide and the legal challenges too weak for the final results to change.
I also specifically disagree with this statement:
With the singular exception on the question of whether Pennsylvania should count late-arriving ballots (as that’s at least arguably not in keeping with that state’s laws), I have yet to see any real evidence of “serious and valid ‘irregularities’” in this election. And even with that challenge, due to the way the votes were counted, we know that even if we remove all of the late-arriving ballots, Biden would still win Pennsylvania and thus the election. And even if the results in PA were reversed, that wouldn’t be enough to change the winner of the election. Again: Biden’s margin of victory is just too large for that challenge to make a difference.
While you could say there were other valid “irregularities” in this election, namely the proportion of the votes that were early votes and the proportion of the votes that were through mail-in votes, these were expected given the amount of interest in this election and the pandemic that’s still around, and those “irregularities” aren’t serious or the sort that could plausibly swing any election results.
I also need to repeat this for emphasis: none of the states are as close in this election as Florida was in 2000 or close enough that a recount or throwing out a few thousand votes will make a difference in any of them, and the electoral college vote is not so close that one state changing will make a difference.
There’s no double standard here. The two elections in question are very different in every relevant way.
Re: Re: Re:
Trump is hardly excoriated over whether or not he concedes. The problem is the huge ball of lies he is throwing around about the election after transparently attempting to set up just this scenario for months, years even.
Re: Re: Re:
Do share those irregularities….
Re: Re: Re:
Err you got me at "There were many serious and valid "irregularities" in the Election that could swing the results"… as of yet we have absolutely no evidence of many serious and valid "irregularities" other than solely by Trump and his sycophants.
Your statement sounds like the sort of hyperbole coming from the Trump camp and supporters, and which in almost every instance in actual court lawyers for Trump are having to recant and backtrack.
I am reminded of the case this week where when pressed a lawyer representing Trump who was making a claim that there were no republican monitors in the room tried to dance around the issue until when forced to answer upon risk of penalty replied "there were a nonzero number" of monitors actually present and after which further disclosure revealed more then twice as many republican monitors actually present vs democrats.
Any truly valid claims as you say "must be legally pursued in a calm, objective and methodical matter" but as of yet we have no evidence that anyone in the Trump camp is capable of doing so, and we have ample evidence from many, many officials including the republican officials who oversaw the vote count in the majority of states that the election was fair, honest and there were no irregularities of any consequence, and the few that may have occurred were almost always on an individual basis and have no potential to even minutely sway the results.
So when will this be over? When the Trump camp and its supporters stop drinking the koolaid and start to acknowledge reality.
By the way your comparison about Bush vs Gore is a completely false analogy and part of the discussion in media has touched upon whether the two matters bore any resemblance. FYI, the lead lawyer for Bush on the matter is on record as saying they have no similarities at all – completely different legal matters where in play for that problem vs the current situation. Right out of the horse’s mouth…. Its tough to make a point when the facts are against you is it not?
Re: Re:
It may be because Arizona has an excellent mail-in voting infrastructure, has for decades, and most people here trust it and regard it highly.
Re: Re:
Oops, turns out I was wrong, and those affidavits were signed under penalty of perjury.
It would be funny if it weren’t guaranteed to lead to republican lawmakers across the US adding even more absurd restrictions to voter registration and million of angry rednecks committing terrorist attacks then electing someone even more openly evil in 2024 because they want America to burn as they’ve been told to believe the election was stolen.
Tell that to Trump fans. Though they won’t believe you.
Incessant claims of fraud where there is none is an even bigger and actual fraud.
I saw the fraud…
Trumps lawyer or the judge sounds incompetent.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Creating mostly un-true articles bashing Trump with obvious Fraudulent comments bashing Trump doesn’t convince me that there hasn’t been election fraud for Biden, when there has been, nor does it convince me that Biden should be the president when anyone can look up his name on Techdirt to find years upon years of evidence he is corrupt. Hence, this article is trash and so are the comments, especially with that last bit trashing Trump’s children and family. As if they are the only ones that know that Biden and the entire DNC, including the media are corrupt. There are more than enough examples how corrupt the media and Biden is. This article is along the lines of Trash Trump, make Biden look like he’s not a corrupt SOB, when he is.
Re: Re:
Shiva Ayyadurai still didn’t invent email, Hamilton.
Re: Re:
That goldarn fAKe nEwS!!! Hail the god-emperor!! Icm with you all the way! Trump campaign definitely hasnt brought the reported case to court, the documents with the lawyers statement are all FAKE, its a dnc scam! They didnt even make a fraud hotline! It was a dumbocratic honeypot!!!1 Trying to make trump voters look incompetent and impotent! The PROOF is FLOODING IN!! Tjey will exPoSE It aLllll! 12 moRe yEaRs!!!
Re: Re: Re:
Unfortunately it’s impossible to tell whether you’re being sarcastic or a genuine Trump cultist – who actually DO sound like that. Google “The Biden crime family is stealing the election. The media’s covering it up.” and watch the crazy man rant in front of the camera.
Perhaps a /s might help us tell the difference.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
It’s the typos that make it look so authentic.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
That one was just brilliant, from the chill response by the guy at the podium(‘Right, where were we?’) to the fact that, as I saw someone point out the ranting loon was clearly expected to be dragged off(‘Come and see the violence inherent in the system!’) and when they just watched he had to wander off when he ran out of steam.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
"…and when they just watched he had to wander off when he ran out of steam."
Yeah, that almost made me feel bad about the crazy man who was all-in to go martyring himself for Dear Leader only to be met with slightly confused pitying gazes until he eventually meandered off, looking like he was about to start crying.
It closely mimics the online version of the modern GOP adherent;
Alt-Right: "Let me speak, I bet you won’t dare let me speak! Because if you’d let me talk I’d reveal everything!!"
Platform: "You have the floor, good sir"
Alt-Right: <Self-destructs>
Re: Re:
Deny reality all you like, it is your prerogative.
Others wearing a mask is really none of your business is it.
If your obsession is telling others what to do, perhaps you are wasting your time here.
Re: Re:
Care to point out which articles are untrue?
Care to present evidence that there has been election-fraud in favor of Biden?
At no point in this article or its comments are Trump’s family mentioned.
Care to elaborate?
Biden is not mentioned nowhere in this article. You are conflating that criticizing the Trump Campaign (who on Trumps behest) are waging a baseless legal battle is the same thing as making Biden look good. If you want to take that reasoning to it’s logical conclusion, what does that tell us about Trump who regularly shit-talks anyone who doesn’t agree with him?
Re: Re: Re:
To be (needlessly) fair, the family are mentioned in the article’s penultimate para. Blink and you’ll miss it, but"trashing"? – hardly.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Ah, yeah.. I apparently blinked.
Re: Re:
Trump lost, get over it.
Re: Re: Re:
Nah, let them rage. Their tears are delicious.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:
Untrue, Trump has not conceded, and the victor has yet to be decided.
Re: Re: Re:
Trump doesn’t need to concede the election for the results to be legally valid (concession is a mere formality), and he has no conceivable path to victory in the 2020 election that doesn’t involve Republican-contolled state legislatures in “blue” states fucking Biden over by way of screwing with the vote certifications/naming electors who will vote for Trump at the appropriate time.
Trump lost, get over it.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Hey Tim Cushing
Hey Tim, obvious we know who you "favor" running for president, it’s Biden, admit it. You Biden loving idiot. How about you take this trash article Trashing trump and you throw it in the trash where it belongs. There is factual evidence Biden is a POS, there’s plenty of it here on Techdirt that go back years and years of coverage. How about you call Biden up and take his money for writing this article, he’ll pay you for it, if he hasn’t done it already, he’d love you to kiss his feet, because you already are. Oh, yea, bring your Trump trash-talking "friends’ who left comments with you, I’m sure they’d love to kiss his feet with you.
Re: Hey Tim Cushing
It’s pretty funny how childish you sound from someone criticizing a guy you like.
Re: Re:
He’s following the playbook of his Dear Leader. The cult of personality that is Donald Trump attracts all kinds (of easily controlled fools).
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Well, I guess you can still trust Baghdad Bob to keep proclaiming victory even in the face of overwhelming and obvious defeat. It’s kind of his gig.
Re:
Attacking Biden doesn’t make Trump any less corrupt and incompetent.
Also: If Trump claims the entire electoral process is rigged and we can’t trust it now, why should we have trusted the process if it had instead favored him?
Re: Re: Re:
I thought voter ID laws and such would prevent it? And they are claiming rigging in places where their party is on charge or had time to fix it….
Also, if they claim rigged.. should the people who won senate seats hold off until we investigate too? After all….. Fraud they claim is bad and we have to be sure….
Yeah, being logical……
Re: Re: Re:
Yeah, funny thing about that: Several states that had to start counting mail-in/absentee ballots on or after Election Day did so because of laws made by the state legislatures — Republican-controlled ones, more often than not — that set such rules. Trump should look at his own party if’n he wants to blame anyone for all the so-called late votes.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Well, the same applies for Russian influence then, Trump had 4 years to make sure that Russia would support him again, and he failed? Or rather the logical explanation is that elections cannot be rigged by mail in ballots or by foreign powers, no matter how hard you try to make it look like a possibility?
Re: Re: Re:3
You’d think that, for all that bluster about rigged elections, the Trump administration would’ve tried to help at least the “red” states shore up their election security. But so far as I can tell, the administration did nothing on that front.
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
Russia did support Trump through this election with their disinformation campaign and it worked. It just wasn’t enough to overwhelm all the voters who wanted him to no longer be our president. Without Russia’s interference he probably would have lost by an even bigger margin, going from "big loser" to "historically huge loser".
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
Russiagate was debunked by Aaron Maté, haven’t you been clued in about it yet? So, your Russia comments are FAKE.
sources
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zey2jlx37CI
But since you support Biden by defending him. Here’s your champion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BusmxznLDOo&t=585s
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRjCaWnrsts
Re: Re: Re:5
Random YouTube videos mean nothing here.
Re: Re: Re:5 Re:
Swing and a miss.
Re: Re: Re:5 Re:
"Russiagate was debunked by Aaron Maté, haven’t you been clued in about it yet"
Who? What are his credentials?
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:6 Re:
I guess you’re clueless about who he is, but I know who he is. I guess you’ll just have to do your own research on how he’s debunked Russiagate.
Re: Re: Re:7 Re:
Multiple intelligence communities have agreed that Russia did interfere using disinformation campaigns.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:8 Re:
which is exactly the point – same people (Brennan, Clapper) that lied to the Senate recently under oath, lied us in the Iraqi war, and consider Assange and Snowden enemies of the security state because they uncovered crimes which they tried to keep secret.Zero credibility and dossiers (steele and others) debunked over and over. The intelligence community never provided solid proofs on russiagate, and the lack of evidence is the ONLY reason why there were no indictments after a 2 years long probe, and no impeachment. In the past, other investigations led to impeachment and resignation of sitting presidents. Based on evidence. Russiagate did not. the Clinton emailgate did not. this is a fact. Russia gate and supposed election frauds are good for the Twitter tribunal only, and as click baits for an increasingly emotional and immature public, which on both sides got used to cry "they stole my election". we had four years of "the Russians did it with 100k dollars in facebook adverts" now we will have four years of "the Chinese did it by voting Biden via mail directly from China and they hacked my coffee machine in the process to demoralize me"
Re: Re: Re:9 Re:
you can also see it this way: there is evidence that many parties try to manipulate the elections, and that in some cases they breach the law by doing so, and are prosecuted for that (manafort for example). But there is no evidence that US elections can be (or were) manipulated by any malicious foreign or internal actors to the enormous scale necessary to change the result of any presidential election.
Re: Re: Re:10 Re:
"the enormous scale necessary to change the result of any presidential election"
Erm, no. The 2016 election basically came down to less than 80,000 votes in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin – or 0.06% of the total vote. That’s well within the typical margin of error, hardly an enormous feat.
Whether or not it was actually swung by Russian interference is another question, but we’re talking about the small number of votes needed to have the EC votes go one way, not the much larger number of popular votes that would be very difficult to manipulate.
Re: Re: Re:11 Re:
sure, but there are countless groups, lobbies, associations pressuring voters one way or the other, all of them competing for the very same 80,000 votes, every single election, because of how the Electoral College works. When I write about the "enormous scale" I mean that there is no proof that a malicious entity could alone shift the balance made of thousands of legitimate parties campaigning for their own ideas and candidates, and make that one significant difference that "controls" the election outcome. Pin-pointing the result of the election on a single fact (russia, china, mail fraud and so on) is the first step of the "someone/something stole my election" narrative. It is worrisome to me that so many people fall into this trap.
Re: Re: Re:12 Re:
I disagree with the idea that a single entity could not be able to swing that number of votes, especially when you consider they aren’t necessarily working alone. For example, if a bunch of low information voters are having their votes swung by misinformation on Facebook, and Facebook also want an R victory, they may be willing to let that misinformation slide and/or make the corrections to the misinformation less visible to the target group. That doesn’t mean that Facebook are working for the Russians posting the misinformation, but the effect is that the people trying to manipulate the election get what they want.
One of the sad things the last few years have brought starkly to light is that for every voter who carefully considers their positions and their vote, there’s a bunch of other people who will just believe whatever some meme told them and vote accordingly. So, manipulation of those groups in the numbers actually required to swing elections is rather easier than you’re making it out to be.
We can argue all day as to whether the known manipulation attempts have actually resulted in the election being swung. But, it sure as hell is possible. Especially in the current climate where people trying to correct the misinformation are the ones being attacked as an ideological enemy in some quarters.
Re: Re: Re:13 Re:
well – we almost completely agree then ) . I also think that this "possibility" of voters manipulation has been steadily increasing in the last 20 years as it is inversely proportional to the quality of the public debate on media and social networks, and most importantly, to the quality of education (intended as the development of critical thinking, not mindless absorption of concepts). I am more and more tired of debunking idiot conspiracy theories. And I am frightened by the traction that batshit crazy political ideas get – there is a lot of extremism fueled by rabbit holes and it has been increasing. Very sad indeed.
Re: Re: Re:11 Re:
That calculation looks screwed up. From the top of my head.
So adding up, I get a number south of 30 million total population in the three states.
0.06% is close to 0.05%. Five percent is 1/20. Point-five percent is 1/200. So 0.05% is 1/2000. Inverting and multiplying, 2 thousand times 80 thousand would be 160 million. (That is, 0.05% of 160 million is the 80,000 number you gave).
You had just better not be having anywhere near 150 million total votes out of a total population that’s south of 30 million.
Your numbers look very screwed up. Please actually find the correct numbers, and give us hyperlinked references, instead of relying on memory.
Re: Re: Re:12 Re:
0.06% of the TOTAL votes, i.e. nationally. As in they would have to manipulate national figures, just a few thousand here and there in certain key areas that would be insignificant on the national level.
Re: Re: Re:13 Re:
Ok. The NATIONAL total. That’s better.
But then I don’t understand what you meant by “typical margin of error”. Out of that same earlier comment, you wrote, with one insertion:
I elided the second sentence, but that’s the actually statement that caught my eye first, and caused me to question what you’re trying to communicate.
Are you saying that 80,000 votes is within some “typical [national] margin of error”?
‘Cause if you are, then I’m going to ask just exactly why an actual vote margin within three states is comparable to a “[national] margin of error”? Maybe it’s just early on a Saturday morning, but on close examination, you’re not making sense to me.
Re: Re: Re:14 Re:
He’s saying only 0.06% of total votes needed to be swayed, if they are carefully chosen in the proper places. I think the margin of error comment is just pointing out that this is a very very small chunk of the electorate that needs to be influenced, not some tremendous feat impacting the entire population of the US. Whether it is actually within any particular measurement’s margin of error is beside the point (if I have understood correctly – the comment was not mine).
Re: Re: Re:15 Re:
"He’s saying only 0.06% of total votes needed to be swayed, if they are carefully chosen in the proper places"
Bingo. It’s trivial in a system that in the same election allowed 2.8 million votes to be effectively discounted because they were cast in the wrong location.
"I think the margin of error comment is just pointing out that this is a very very small chunk of the electorate that needs to be influenced,"
Yes. A national recount might have revealed more votes than that having been miscounted in the first count, but a targeted misinformation campaign probably swung votes by more than the margin error in specific counties.
Re: Re: Re:14 Re:
"Are you saying that 80,000 votes is within some “typical [national] margin of error”?"
No, I’m saying that 0.06% is well within the typical margin of error. Which it is in pretty much any vote.
"xMaybe it’s just early on a Saturday morning, but on close examination, you’re not making sense to me."
Learn some reading comprehension, then? My only point is that 0.06% of the total vote is not some enormous hurdle to overcome, as the original AC was implying.
Re: Re: Re:9 Re:
Continuing to deliberately lie about russiagate like that is not helping get you out of that credibility hole you’re in.
Re: Re: Re:8 Re:
"Multiple intelligence communities have agreed that Russia did interfere using disinformation campaigns."
That didn’t take intel agencies to determine. Gangs of russian trolls crawling all over the internet discrediting Hillary and hailing Trump to the skies was a fairly obvious move.
Less obvious perhaps is the time before Trump went up as a presidential candidate when he was blacklisted by every bank in the world and yet still managed to land himself a few hundred million dollars in loans from Deutsche Bank, guaranteed by the russian state bank with, apparently, nothing as collateral.
The biggest interference by russia in the 2016 election may have been the part where I suspect the "self-funded" campaign Trump held was, in fact, paid for by Russia.
Re: Re: Re:7 Re:
So we believe some rando who refers to some other rando over the intelligence services AND Drumpf’s repeatedly displayed public affection for strongman Putin?
Yeah, no.
Re: Re: Re:7 Re:
So, he has no credibility? Cool.
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
The Russia gate failed miserably to produce results, like the impeachment. The legal challenges by Trump will fail (even if they do uncover some isolated frauds, which in such a large country might very well exist somewhere). And China gate will also fail, should a special investigation be launched on Hunters emails. There is simply not the evidence – except for catching isolated corruption cases, which in any case do not shift the election, only prove that bad people are everywhere. So many people voted against Trump – almost as many voted against Hillary. The reason why the best alternative the us political system could come up with is Biden, well that is the real problem, not some fantasy "rigging" story, whatever side the story of the day is accusing.
Re: Re: Re:5 Re:
Getting progressive legislation will take some time as will fixing things, make no mistake – Biden is an interim neocon who is President Elect because he is not Trump.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:6 Re:
I voted not-Trump but I’m also glad the senate didn’t flip. I don’t want Biden having unmitigated power any more than I wanted Trump to have it. Biden is a poor choice for president but Trump was far, far worse.
Re: Re: Re:7
Congratulations, you’re going to get at least two more years of partisan deadlock as Republicans do their best to stay on the good side of Trump voters (which means fucking over Democrats at every possible chance, even if it means those voters suffer for their desire to “own the libs”).
Re: Re: Re:8 Re:
Given how the US government has operated for the last few decades I’d much rather have deadlock than a stream of shitty new laws. Neither the democrats nor the republicans should have the power to pass whatever laws they want without tempering them enough to gain the support of both sides.
Re: Re: Re:9 Re:
That would be valid if we had two parties that actually had the country’s best interests in mind, with similar goals but different ideas of how to get there.
At present, we have one party that is blowing dog-whistles of oppressive ideologies, actively attempting to discredit hard facts and science, and thereby causing widespread death and harm to people they should be actively protecting instead. The current Republican party is actively trying to harm people.
I’m no fan of the establishment Democrats, but in the choice between "actively trying to harm me" and "might help but probably won’t do enough quick enough" the choice is clear. In the current era, a Democrat majority in the House, Senate, and Presidency is the only way I can see towards real progress.
Re: Re: Re:9 Re:
Wait, what? You think reasonable shit comes out of whatever D & R can work out between them?
No wonder we’re fucked.
Re: Re: Re:10 Re:
Not at all but it’s slightly more reasonable than what each party wants on its own. That’s why I’m a fan of congressional deadlock. They won’t be able to pass much of anything but at least when they do it will be a solid turd instead of diarrhea.
And we’re fucked because we’re a two party system and both parties are extreme polar opposites of one another instead of reasonable, critically thinking people. Now we’re extra fucked because most of the country aligns itself fully with one color or the other and politics has become a sport and spectacle.
Re: Re: Re:11
Whatever other policies either group has, only one of them is actively trying to erode every barrier that protects the American Experiment from a fascist takeover. And it ain’t the group that nominated Joe Biden, that’s for goddamn sure.
Re: Re: Re:12 Re:
100% agreed and that’s why I voted Biden. I still threw up in my mouth a little doing so. Democrats aren’t called the "tax and spend" party for nothing and the last fucking thing we the people need is more taxation. Ok, second to last. Fascism is the last.
Re: Re: Re:13 Re:
Regarding "the Biden tax" – to be fair, very few people make over 400k and if you do, it should be very easy to make the small sacrifice for your country … that is still a thing right?
Re: Re: Re:14 'Let someone else make the sacrifice, my comfort has priority'
You kidding, tons of people threw massive tantrums when asked to do nothing more than wear a mask during a deadly pandemic, the very idea of someone with piles of money giving some of it up is clearly nothing short of commie-socialist fueled madness.
Re: Re: Re:15 'Let someone else make the sacrifice, my comfort has priorit
Yes, my comment was tongue in cheek.
Many self righteous patriots love to brag about how patriotic they are, I suggest they shit or get off the pot.
Re: Re: Re:9 Re:
That doesn’t work very well when one side is out to prove that government does not and cannot work.
Re: Re: Re:10 Re:
Mitch McConnell 2016: "I will make it my mission top ensure this will be a one term president"
Mitch McConnell 2020: "I will block anything this government wants to do"
(both roughly paraphrased but that is what he had said)
Reaching across the aisle doesn’t achieve much when the other side of the aisle will reject even the bills they wrote.
Re: Re: Re:11 Re:
Erm, 2012 for the one term president thing, but the statement is what it was. McConnell didn’t even wait till Obama was sworn in to announce he would cripple his administration.
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
False.
Re: Re: Re:5 Re:
I like the comments that provide details about why a claim is valid, that sort of thing … you should try it.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:
I haven’t read about any "attack" on Biden? Biden is corrupt, that is a FACT. Trump, well he may have some soft corruption going on somewhere(if you can call it that compared to an opinion). But Biden is far more corrupt than Trump. But if you favor Biden, like many who have commented here appear to be in support of.
The difference between Trump and Biden is Biden will be getting a whole lot more EVIL shit done.
sources
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BusmxznLDOo&t=585s
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRjCaWnrsts
Re: Re: Re: Re:
A comedian and something that doesn’t load?
Great sources, Chet. If you wonder why half of the population generally thinks the average trump supporter is an idiot, having a comedian as a news source might be a good place to start looking.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Admit it. Jimmy Dore, though a comedian, at least sources his work and gets his facts straight. Biden is a warmongering/war profiteer, who’s cabinet is just as bad as he is.
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
Citing conspiracy theories as your sources isn’t really the proof you’re wanting to be proud of.
But then again, you guys are also QAnon fans too right?
How’d that bullshit turn out, chucklefuck?
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
No conspiracy about Biden. The links given are solid source for true information.
Re: Re: Re:5 Re:
Nah. Youtube videos aren’t a source. They can be edited to make things seem entirely opposite of what they truly are.
Re: Re: Re:6
For example: They could make Alex Jones seem sane.
Re: Re: Re:6 Re:
False
Re: Re: Re:7 Re:
Which part? Are you saying that editing makes no difference to context, or that misleadingly edited videos are a reliable source?
Re: Re: Re:7 Re:
An argument isn’t just contradiction. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition. Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says.
Re: Re: Re:3
Let’s assume that’s true.
What does that have to do with the corruption of the Donald Trump administration, up to and including its wannabe-mob-boss leader?
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
You say Trump is a wannabe-mob-boss leader. I say, he’s an elected president and you just don’t like him so you’ll say anything to slander him and his family. just because you want to.
Re: Re: Re:5
Hey, that’s not slander!
Slander is spoken; in print, it’s libel.
Re: Re: Re:6 Re:
Love the reference to spider man
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
I know what sources he’s talking about.
Here are the links
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTh-hzZ1ZKY
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BusmxznLDOo
oh and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRjCaWnrsts&t=59s
Re: Re: Re:
He put his family in positions of power within his administration. Several of his cronies have repeatedly violated the Hatch Act. He himself has used the White House for partisan political events. He was impeached because he literally tried to extort a foreign power into attacking his political rival. And that’s all off the top of my head.
If you think that’s “soft”, I’d hate to see your definition of “hard”.
I didn’t vote for Biden; I voted against Trump. Biden was simply the only other guy on the ballot who stood any chance of winning.
Hard to believe he’ll top the whole “we’re going to keep immigrants and migrants applying for asylum in concentration camps, separate them from their kids, and send them back to wherever they came from without their kids” thing, but hey, I’m willing to keep an open mind if you are.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Oddly enough, the evil liberals/progressives/leftists/socialists — whatever — are handily around to tamp down on the warmongering and other authoritarian shit.
Maybe… AC could work with them?
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Trump did not violate any act, though you and others may assert this. There is no legal challenge that he has, so no he hasn’t, until it’s proven in a court. Trump did not have cronies, he appointed whomever he thought was best for the job. His family he put into positions were people he trusted more than corrupt political cronies, that’s off the top of my head. Sure, they can be criticized for their faults on whatever, but they strived to help a LOT of people.
Your pitch is as if Trump was all bad and never helped Americans. When Trump helped a LOT of people, a lot of people that needed the help the Obama Administration never did.
Biden has years of on record video and documentation of his corruption with Hollywood, the copyright mafia, for several draconian bills such as SOPA, while most Americans didn’t support it. Also, Biden under the Obama administration was responsible for the separation of kids from their families. Trump put an end to that when news spread to him about it and he went on record stating that.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7cmxB16eX4
Sources: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111115/00240216771/new-study-shows-majority-americans-against-sopa-believe-extreme-copyright-enforcement-is-unreasonable.shtml
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20161119/11341136090/this-week-techdirt-history-sopa-retrospective.shtml
and
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111114/10493316765/vp-joe-biden-explains-why-sopa-protect-ip-are-anti-american-bad-idea.shtml
Thanks for voting for Biden, chucklefuck, and to everyone else who voted for him. Biden is going to screw a Whole lot of southerners and law enforcement who need funding, the border wall built to keep violent drug/human traffickers from coming to America, you suck.
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
Thanks for voting for Biden, chucklefuck, and to everyone else who voted for him.
You’re very welcome! Really enjoying owning you conservatives. By the way, fuck your feelings.
Biden is going to screw a Whole lot of southerners
Not as much as covid and a general lack of education is – amirite?
and law enforcement who need funding,
You mean cops who have no duty to protect? Yeah, fuck them. Besides, I have my 2A and my guns that Obama never took.
the border wall built to keep violent drug/human traffickers from coming to America, you suck.
I thought you were going to build it and Mexico was going to pay for it? Didn’t trump build millions of miles of it from the Mexican check and the revenue the China tariffs has been pouring in?
I think you need to revisit your talking points. You sad sacks are really slacking.
Re: Re: Re:4
Amusingly enough, I am a Southerner — and I’m at least smart enough to know that voting for Trumpians (i.e., Republicans) is voting against the best interests of the people of my home state…including myself.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:5 Re:
Amusingly, you have no idea as a Southerner that voting against Republicans is voting against yourself and your home state, sad.
Re: Re: Re:6
Yeah, uh…I didn’t vote “against” myself because I wasn’t raised to be a conservative or a Republican. I register independent but vote Democrat because until a viable third party candidate comes along, Democrats will do less to fuck up my life and curtail my civil rights as a queer person.
I don’t give a fuck how the rest of my state votes. I vote with my conscience, even if that goes against how a majority of people in this state vote. And fuck you for thinking I should fall in line with a political ideology only because of where I live. I may be a Southerner, and I may be a bit clueless at times, but I’m not that much of a fucking idiot.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
I could care less if the American people paid for the wall or Mexico did or not. The point is, America needed that wall to stem the constant flow of violent criminal gangs/drug/human traffickers. Do your homework and you’ll find that people that live along the border experienced more violence from cartels during the Obama administration than Trump.
Re: Re: Re:5 Re:
I could care less if the American people paid for the wall or Mexico did or not.
But there was that gimped vet who did the gofundme with Bannon – you remember him? I thought you guys were gonna gofundme the wall when Mexico told trump to go fuck his mother when he called them?
What happened to you guys paying for your own shit?
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:6 Re:
Shifting the conversation to insults on conservatives, Trump etc for the funding of the wall doesn’t mean that the wall is absolutely needed for the safety of many Americans along the border. Voting Biden was a screw you to southerners that depended on that wall to be built for their safety from real drug/human trafficking and murder. Biden doesn’t give a sh*t about Americans, period, voting for Biden, neither do you. Biden’s already in the works planning how he’s going to screw Americans.
Re: Re: Re:7
Let’s assume that’s true.
How did Donald Trump prove he gives a shit about Americans? Was it the bungled response to a pandemic that has already killed a quarter-million Americans, the attempts to repeal the Affordable Care Act in its entirety (including protections for people with preëxisting conditions), the push to have SCOTUS hear a case that could dismantle the ACA in the middle of that pandemic, the teargassing of peaceful protesters for the sake of a photo op, the holding of large in-person events that have helped spike COVID cases around the country, dismissing scientific expertise in favor of his own (lack of) expertise in dealing with diseases, or something else entirely?
Re: Re: Re:8 Every accusation, a confession
Saying that Biden doesn’t care about americans is all sorts of rich when the person doing so is defending a sociopathic narcissist who only cares about himself.
Re: Re: Re:7 Re:
Because they don’t have ladders on the other side of the border?
Re: Re: Re:8 Re:
You have to remember that the average Mexican peasant is far, far more intelligent than the average Trumptard.
Re: Re: Re:7 Re:
I see you have fallen for the standard tactic of a politician who would rob you blind, and that is blaming foreigners for all the evils in society.
Re: Re: Re:7 Re:
Funny thing: most of the counties along the US-Mexico border voted for Biden in this election and have polled as being opposed to a border wall.
Re: Re: Re:8 Re:
Strange, it’s almost as though they know that The Wall is nothing more than an expensive but useless publicity stunt meant to rile up racists and/or the gullible…
Re: Re: Re:8 Re:
I don’t recall where, but I do remember reading an article somewhere that suggested that fear of illegal immigration was more highly concentrated in counties and states miles away from any border. The border states were more likely to be friendly to immigration. Perhaps the propaganda just doesn’t work on people who can disprove them by looking out their window?
There was a similar study in the wake of 9/11 – people in bumfuck, nowhere, 1000 miles away, were more scared of terrorism than New Yorkers.
Re: Re: Re:9 Re:
People tend to fear the unknown more then something they have already experienced.
Re: Re: Re:9 Re:
With regards to the border, I think it’s also because they also pay more directly for the border wall and border enforcement, such as eminent domain and loss of constitutional rights.
Re: Re: Re:7 Re:
Voting Biden was a screw you to southerners that depended on that wall to be built for their safety
But what about their guns? Weren’t they safe with their guns?
Biden doesn’t give a sht about Americans, period, voting for Biden, neither do you.
That’s right – I don’t care one fucking bit about those ‘fuck your feelings’ americans who are all butthurt now. Suck it up snowflake, and cry harder.
Re: Re: Re:5 Re:
The US-Mexico border is 1,954 miles long. During Trump’s regime 400 miles of wall have been built with a goal of 450 miles by the end of the year. All but 9 miles of that wall replaced existing wall. In total, 654 miles (including Trump’s wall) of the border currently are walled, 33.5%.
Trump has added 9 new miles of wall in 4 years, 0.46% of the border.
I think I’m safe in saying that his wall has had absolutely zero effect on immigration, legal or otherwise. Perhaps his policies have had an effect, perhaps cartels have found other ways to get their business done that are less noticeable. Whatever the case, Trump’s wall is a complete joke.
Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico%E2%80%93United_States_barrier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_wall#:~:text=By%20September%2025%2C%202020%2C%20321,replaced%20old%20or%20broken%20barriers.
Re: Re: Re:3
Who, exactly, did Trump help? Because the way I see it, the only people he tried to help were the people who voted for/supported him. He railed against supporters of the Movement for Black Lives (including Colin Kaepernick, whom Trump once called a “son of a bitch”). He threatened to withhold funding from “blue” cities/states unless they kissed his ring. He showed no interest in having the U.S. federal government coördinate a national response to a pandemic that has killed nearly a quarter-million Americans. He banned transgender people from serving in the military and installed federal judges (including three Supreme Court justices) who seem more than willing to roll back LGBT civil rights by anywhere between 5 and 50 years. Any “help” Trump gave to any group of Americans was done so with the explicit idea that this was a debt of sorts, which he wanted repaid on Election Day 2020 in the form of a second term.
Trump doesn’t see other people as people. He seems them as either tools or fools — as useful idiots who can help him (e.g., conservative Christian evangelicals) or subhuman idiots who stand against him (e.g., every Democrat, every “RINO” who has critcized him in even the tiniest of ways). And last I checked, even with all this supposed “help” Trump has given out, the U.S. economy is spiraling downward because of COVID and the body politic is as divided as ever thanks to Trump stoking the fires of racial division and supporting racists and saying racist bullshit and attacking people of color (especially Black women) with more venom and bile than any White person not named Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden.
Donald Trump went into the White House with a singular vision of who he wanted to help. When he comes out of the White House, he will have fulfilled that vision — because the only person he ever wanted to help was himself. Anyone else whose life improved in some way during the past four years saw their life improve in spite of, not because of, the actions of the 45th president.
But sure, keep thinking Trump helped a lot of people. By the way: How many more people is COVID-19 projected to kill by the end of the year, again?
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
"Biden is going to screw a Whole lot of southerners…"
Yeah, our hearts all bleed for the Very Fine People crying in their beers because Jim Crow didn’t return.
"…and law enforcement who need funding…"
The "law enforcement" better equipped than most armies, which racks up an "innocent civilians killed" rate higher than you find in most third world countries? They don’t need further funding, they need a Haague tribunal hearing.
"…the border wall built to keep violent drug/human traffickers from coming to America…"
You mean that decrepit fence which keeps out absolutely no one and hasn’t, in fact done jack shit because most drug smuggling and human trafficking takes place over ports?
"you suck."
At the end of the day you people decided to stand up in favor of racism, fascism and bigotry just to keep a white supremacist hell-bent on undermining every basic principle he could find in office. I think we’re all real happy not to get any compliments from you Very Fine People.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Like keeping immigrant kids in cages away from their parents?
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Like that statement you made about immigrant children started under the Obama administration? Keep bashing Trump and glorifying Biden.
The first source I found:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7cmxB16eX4
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
And since it’s such a bad thing, and something Obama started, Trump, in all his wisdumb, kept it going.
I wonder how it feels for him and you chimps to agree with an Obama-era policy. Can you tell us how it feels?
And while we’re talking about Obama, let’s also remember that Obamacare is still the law of the land, despite 6 years of trying to repeal it, 2 years of having the entire Congress and executive branch to repeal/replace it, and another 2 years to try harder.
Since you have a boner for Obama and all…
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
Hey Einstein, who was president when the nazi doctors started performing unnecessary hysterectomies against the will and/or knowledge of the patient/immigrant?
Re: Re: Re:5 Re:
Meant to reply to youtube dude
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
"And since it’s such a bad thing, and something Obama started, Trump, in all his wisdumb, kept it going."
There’s a significant difference between the enforcement between the two administrations that changes the acceptability of it. Let’s see if you can work it out…
"let’s also remember that Obamacare is still the law of the land, despite 6 years of trying to repeal it"
Yes, the compromise that happened because Republicans pretended that the US was too incompetent to enact a first world healthcare system was not repealed while the Republicans were in charge. Let’s mull over that for a while..
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:5 Re:
Not true. According to former ICE director Tom Homan, Trump did not seperate children the way Obama did and has thwarted drug/human trafficking across the border.
But I’m guessing you don’t live near the border of the USA and have NO idea how bad things were before under the Obama administration when violence, drug/human tracking was rampant.
Source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpKtyRGZbNQ
Re: Re: Re:6
He did it in an entirely different way, sure. But he still did it.
And how much of that was the result of merely continuing policies already in place during the Obama administration?
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:7 Re:
Fact is. Trump never locked up children or separated them from their families the way it was implied, that was Obama. Trump improved border security nearly 100%, that wasn’t due to Obama, that was Trump and it is a fact that the drug/huma trafficking nearly stoped entirely because of the border wall. Real law enforcement agencies supported trump including border security, Trump has been dedicated to safety across America.
Re: Re: Re:8 Re:
entirely because of the border wall
Yeah, I’m sure that extra 12 miles made a huge difference. Must be that big, effective wall was the reason he put all those troops there during the midterms, right? Because of how effective your fucking wall was?
Tell me, if the troops were needed there, did they shoot over the wall, through it, or under it?
Re: Re: Re:8 Re:
I’m afraid you are wrong. During Obama some children where separated from the parents when authorities had concerns for their well-being or could not confirm that the "parents" was in fact their legal guardian. Trump instituted the zero-tolerance policy in April 2018 where they started separating children from their parents en masse, all the while AG Jeff Session put their parents into jail, on which he commented with "If you don’t want your child separated, then don’t bring them across the border illegally."
This is well documented, anyone denying this really needs a reality check.
I’m afraid that you are totally wrong:
Border Partol Total Monthly Family Unit Apprehensions by Sector
Well, if you think using rhetoric that is divisive to inflame people is making America safe you are sadly wrong as evidenced by what has been happening the last years.
Re: Re: Re:8 Re:
Especially when he needlessly disbanded the Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense and downplayed the threat from the Coronavirus.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:7 Re:
No, Trump did not. Had you watched the clip linked that I watched,Former ICE director Tom Homan stated he had been with ICE since Reagan and that Trump helped border security more than any other president in his tenure with ICE.
He stated under ICE during the Obama administration had to divide families, not so under the Trump administration unless their parents were criminals and had to go to jail and face criminal charges. The same thing happens to any parent when they go to jail in the USA, so you’re wrong.
Re: Re: Re:8 Re:
He stated that during the Obama administration they divided families if they thought the children where in danger or if they where unsure if the parents where the real legal guardians, and didn’t happen very often.
The Trump administration on the other hand, instituted the zero-tolerance policy where anyone crossing the border could be considered to be a criminal, even if they went through a border crossing to seek asylum. That meant that thousands of children where removed from the families, and there are still hundreds of children in custody because they have no clue who their parents or family are. That’s fucked up on so many levels, and anyone defending that should be subject to the same treatment for a wake-up call.
Context matters.
Re: Re: Re:8 Re:
Youtube. Once again, Youtube videos are not evidence.
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
Yeah, looks as credible as Drumpf’s claim Hillary started the birther movement. But even if it were true, Drumpf hat 4 years to rectify this EVIL but somehow was so powerless he couldn’t do something about it? Impressive.
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
"Like that statement you made about immigrant children started under the Obama administration? "
Even if that were fully true which it isn’t I note your entire argument revolving around the idea that it’s not fair to go after the second guy involved in a gang rape.
Your fucking whataboutism reeks.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
You must have had your head in the ground. The Obama administration was responsible for dividing immigrant families, not Trump.
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
Wow, the revisionist history is strong with this one.
Re: Re: Re:3
Even if Obama started that policy, Trump continued it — until it became a PR nightmare for him, anyway.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
If you were in a debate class, you would probably receive an F on your debate performance.
What will you do now that donny is out … how much do used jack boots go for these days?
Re: Re: Re:
Not just the presidential results but the senate and house results along with state results because they were all on the same ballots. But you don’t hear them screaming how Republicans won senate seats deapite the same statr voting for Trump.
Re: Hey Tim Cushing
fyi: Many who voted Biden did so not because they like him, his stated policies or his platform, no – they voted Biden because they did not want another four years of Trump who seems to think he is King … they didn’t want that either.
I still do not understand the cult and how it makes zombies out of what appear to be normal people.
Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing
Because I think it’s easier for some people to let someone else tell them how to think rather than actually think for themselves. Sad but true.
Re: Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing
Agreed
Re: Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing
Especially when the screeds on what to think are accompanied by exhortations to "think for yourself!"
Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing
"I still do not understand the cult and how it makes zombies out of what appear to be normal people."
Because they aren’t normal. If anything these four years and this election has shown – demonstrably – that one out of three americans is a complete and utter arsehole either so malicious s/he is utterly OK with the racism, bigotry and fascism which has been the repetitive message, or a dumbfuck so ignorant it’s not distinguishable from actual malice any more.
Trump is a symptom. The "cult" is the same as the one which cheered when Cheney advocated torture under GWB and when Ashcroft tried – and largely succeeded – to demolish all constitutional protection with the patriot act.
The message to both americans and elsewhere, is that the US is 30% raging sociopath and so unable to pull off a democratic election those 30% carry the day in every other election.
Re: Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing
We can probably all agree that average intelligence in the US is not very smart. Knowing that, we must recognize that this means approximately half the country is even dumber than that. Thanks to this election cycle we now know which half that is.
Re: Re: Re:2 Hey Tim Cushing
"We can probably all agree that average intelligence in the US is not very smart."
After several decades of reduced funding, poor education policy and a lack of competent administration, what would one suspect might happen? Yes, the general public needs a good education in order to function at higher levels, levels that conservatives fear.
Re: Re: Re:3 Hey Tim Cushing
I don’t disagree with your assertion. I just lament the outcome and note that we now know who suffered the most from our piss poor education system.
Re: Hey Tim Cushing
Hmm, are you trash-talking Biden to make Trump look good?
Didn’t you say in an earlier post that this is how you make a corrupt POS look good?
It’s embarrassing how bad you are at this…
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
Hmm… Are you a Biden supporting idiot? I’m willing to bet you haven’t read a single article about Biden on Techdirt. Just type is name and you’ll have plenty to read. Then turn on some Jimmy Dore, you’ll find even more about how corrupt Biden is.
So are you questioning me with this question as if you are trying to make Biden look good? It’s embarrassing how bad you are at stating facts because trying to trash me, when you obviously are in bias support of Biden with such comments.
Fact is, Trump is trying to get legal victories, you win some, you lose some, it’s whatever he’s trying to do. He’s certainly not being laughed out of court, and he’s certainly not been trying to stop voters, voting legally, that’s for sure.
Obviously you’re really bad at underlining facts, you’d rather be in the band waggon of Trash talkers probably paid by the DNC who monitor online conversations involving their political interest to try and trash anyone who are in opposition to their corruption. So you must be corrupt too.
Re: Re: Re:
His legal team hasn’t won a single meaningful case that they’ve brought before a court on the matter of voter fraud in the 2020 election.
You’re not familiar with hyperbole, are you, Squidward?
Not him personally, but the GOP sure as hell tried, what with all the closing of polling places and attempts to limit who could vote by mail and whatnot.
Also: Trump called for states that were still counting votes — in-person or otherwise — to stop counting votes after Election Day. That would’ve disenfranchised millions of voters who cast their ballots legally. So…yeah, you keep defending that, see where that gets you.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Last I checked Trump had a legal victory in Pennsylvania, whether you determine that meaningful or not, that’s an opinion, though it may be a fruitless venture in the end. Regardless, Bashing Trump supporters is low. Trump isn’t racist, he’s not a Russian asset. Trump may be disliked by many reading this artcile, and my comments, who wanted him to do what you wanted him to, but to many real voters who supported Trump, they did so without question because he helped them, and they know that Biden is a corrupt piece of garbage.
But hey, maybe you support Biden who’s not planning to finish the wall which has helped law enforcement stop drug/human traffickers, rapist, and murderes across the border, while lining up his cabinet with warprofiteers, warmongers, and backed by the copyright mafia, which you can read all about here on Techdirt if you type Joe Biden.
The moral of what I’m saying and have been saying is not in defense of Trump per-say but that Trump is the better candidate than Biden 100%. Bashing me or his supporters is childish. But I did not vote for Joe or Trump. I know Trump voters who are great people and many more Biden supporters who ar clueless to Bidens corruption and less moral than those who support Trump, because many of them want an end to the rampant crime wave in Democrate lead states and safe borders where drug/human trafickers have for decades taken advantage of weak border protections.
sources:
https://www.techdirt.com/search-g.php?num=20&q=joe+biden&search=Search
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRjCaWnrsts&t=58s
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BusmxznLDOo
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
Regardless, Bashing Trump supporters is low.
Really? Bashing the ‘fuck your feelings’ people who do things to ‘own the libs’ is low?
Well, fuck their feelings. And their conservative tears are delicious.
Re: Re: Re:4
(Source)
Re: Re: Re:5 From 'Fuck your feelings' to 'Harsh language is uncalled for'
Funny how the tune changes from ‘It’s a real riot to bash all those libs, and if I have to suffer in the process then that’s fine so long as they suffer more’ when they’ve got the power to ‘Hey now, let’s play nice, no need to say mean things’ when it looks like someone else will get the power.
Re: Re: Re:6 From 'Fuck your feelings' to 'Harsh language is uncalled for
Have a look at any of the right wing blog sites and you’ll see from their comments that none of them are really interested in toning down anything. They’re just as violent and childish as ever.
So yeah… Fuck your feelings, Trumpsuckers. Your tears are delicious.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:7 From 'Fuck your feelings' to 'Harsh language is uncalled
Well said, coming from someone who supports Biden, who let out over and again, violent rioters, to destroy, loot, extort businesses, assault, harass, and even murder innocent people. Circumvent due process, defund the police and let crime run rampant in every Democrat lead state.
Bravo!
Re: Re: Re:8
I wasn’t aware that Joe Biden had ordered people to riot, loot, and kill. Or that he did so across the United States. Or that he did so at a time when he wasn’t even in public office.
Remind me: Who was president when George Floyd was killed?
Re: Re: Re:9 Re:
I was aware however, of trump inciting violence from those very fine people.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:9 Re:
George Floyd, you mean the criminal who overdosed while being stopped and died during his resisting of arrest, that neither of the officers new what drugs he was under that caused his irregular behavior. George floyd dying wasn’t Trump’s fault and the media blaming him for it. It was Biden and the majority of the Democrats and the media, and BLM that stated George Floyd was murdered before due process had taken place to determine what happened.
BLM trademark was stolen from someone who created the trademark with the purpose to unite the public with the police with the opposite intent.
The BLM riots came after BLM and the media falsely alleged George floyd was "murdered" were solely responsible for creating chaos across the country with sypathy and hatred for law enforcement altercations that lead to the death of citizens, especially African Americans. Hence, BLM went on a lawless rampage, looting, destroying businesses, harassing, and murdering innocent people, especially who tried to stop their criminal activity or identify them.
The Biden campaign bailed the rioters to continue their rampage across the country. Trump wasn’t responsible for any of the chaos created by BLM rioters, he could only offer aid to the states that requested it. Some took it and law and order was quickly restored. Others refused and the residents suffered.
Re: Re: Re:10 Re:
George Floyd, you mean the criminal who overdosed while being stopped and died during his resisting of arrest,
And like that you utterly demolished any credibility you might have had and made clear that nothing you said afterwards is worth paying attention to because at best you’re honestly getting your information from fatally flawed sources repeating long-debunked talking point and simply don’t realize it, assuming you’re not just flat out lying your ass off.
Re: Re: Re:10 Re:
Your distortion of history and facts is pretty epic. Also blatant and laughable. Are you one of those Russian disinformation campaigners? Sure seem to be.
Re: Re: Re:10
Wow, you really hate George Floyd for having the temerity to be killed over a fake 20, huh.
You know what was Trump’s fault? Him not doing a goddamn thing to quell the civil unrest that exploded in the wake of Floyd’s death. He could’ve made a speech asking for peaceful protests amid a troubling time; he didn’t. He could’ve tried to appeal to everyone’s better angels and urged everyone to stay calm; he didn’t. He could’ve asked for justice for George Floyd and a reëxamination of police procedures and such; he didn’t.
Instead, he did nothing. No speeches, no appeals to our humanity, not a goddamn thing. If anything, he made the situation worse by tweeting shit like “when the looting starts, the shooting starts” and sending in unidentified federal agents to kidnap people off the street.
Donald Trump didn’t kill George Floyd. But he didn’t do a damn thing to seek justice for him, either.
The videotape of him being murdered showed he was murdered, too.
Peaceful protests are not riots, and a fair amount of the property destruction and violence carried out during the actual riots that happened amidst the protests was done by White people (possibly with the intent to stoke further racial division and interracial violence/a “race war”).
[citation needed]
But he was responsible for escalating by calling for heavier police presences in the streets (which is proven to escalate protesters in return) and sending federal troops into cities to yank people into mobile blacksites.
Trump didn’t start the fire. But he sure as shit didn’t do anything to put it out.
Re: Re: Re:8 From 'Fuck your feelings' to 'Harsh language is unca
But you got your guns, tough guy!
What the fucking fuck are you "patriots" so scared of? I thought this was the land of the free and home of the brave? And here you are whining about "snowflakes" that you’re supposed to be fully capable of protecting yourselves against…
Why are you relying on the police to protect your trailers? You got your guns, chicken shit!
Re: Re: Re:8 From 'Fuck your feelings' to 'Harsh language is unca
violent rioters, to destroy, loot, extort businesses, assault, harass, and even murder innocent people
There’s fine people on both sides.
Re: Re: Re:8 From 'Fuck your feelings' to 'Harsh language is unca
Calling bullshit on that assertion. Where’s your proof?
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:6 From 'Fuck your feelings' to 'Harsh language is uncalled for
According to you that’s your interpretation, but it’s not true. Trump has helped all Americans regardless if you like him or not, it’s true. Soon enough Biden will be the next hated president because he will never come close to helping as many Americans as Trump has.
Re: Re: Re:7 Helped them right into a casket that is
Bender, if you would…
Re: Re: Re:7 From 'Fuck your feelings' to 'Harsh language is uncalled
Well, Trump has soon helped about a quarter of million Americans into a early grave. I doubt Biden can top that…
Re: Re: Re:7 From 'Fuck your feelings' to 'Harsh language is uncalled
You’re wrong. He hasn’t helped me one little bit. Even his "tax break" fucked me. I didn’t get anything out of the first COVID relief package, either.
So you’re wrong.
Re: Re: Re:7
I can tear down this ridiculous assertion with two words: transgender people.
Re: Re: Re:8 Re:
"I can tear down this ridiculous assertion with two words: transgender people."
Doesn’t, to the 30% of the US voting for Trump, count as "americans". or, for that matter, as "people".
Re: Re: Re:3
That victory hardly matters unless it led to enough votes being tossed out that the election swings in his favor. Last I checked, it didn’t, so…yeah…
Not really. A lot of Trumpians may not be racist, but Trump’s racism wasn’t a dealbreaker for them in either 2016 or 2020. His disastrous handling of COVID (nearly a quarter-million dead and counting!) wasn’t a dealbreaker, either. Trumpians cared more about hurting libs/Repugnant Cultural Others than they did about their own best interests. For that, I will insult them; if they don’t like that, the snowflakes can run to their safe space (Parler) and complain.
Ah, I see, you’re going to discount all the votes for Biden as not coming from “real voters”. That is…that is certainly an approach to take.
Is that all you care about? Jesus, dude, there’s a quarter-million dead Americans who died because the current sitting president decided he knew more about infectious diseases than actual scientific experts. Do you think “the wall” would’ve prevented that? Christ, get a fucking clue: “The wall” was a campaign promise he never intended to follow through on but kept repeating at rallies because it got a reaction. He played you like a damn fiddle, and you let him.
They voted for an elderly game show host with no experience in either politics or public service to run a country because he promised to keep certain groups of people out of the country, punish people in those groups who were already in this country, and lock up people he hates only because he hates them. I wouldn’t call them “great people” if they were willing to vote for a man who they knew would intentionally inflict pain and suffering upon citizens and non-citizens alike while in office — then voted for him again after he had done so over the course of his four years in office.
And “red” states, they’re not dealing with crime waves and drug overdoses? Maybe wish for a president who will work for all Americans instead of only the ones you think are deserving of help.
Random YouTube videos aren’t going to make me care about your claims, fam.
I’m no fan of Joe Biden. Corruption or not, he is a barely-right-of-center Democrat who is only in office to stop the bleeding Trump has caused and hopefully turn things around to some semblance of normalcy and stability over the next four years. If you want the chaos and despair and hatred and utter heartlessness of the Trump administration for another four years, wait until 2024. I’m sure one of his idiot kids will run for the office, which means you can give your vote to a far more competent fascist.
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
I’m sure one of his idiot kids will run for the office, which means you can give your vote to a far more competent fascist.
Far more competent? Trump’s kids?
You forgot the /s
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
But hey, maybe you support Biden who’s not planning to finish the wall
Wait, another thing trump couldn’t get done? Who would’ve thunk that with all that money from Mexico, he had to pilfer from the military to build what, 12 miles of new wall?
Serves you dipshits right for trusting a moron who could bankrupt a casino.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
His legal team hasn’t won a single meaningful case that they’ve brought before a court on the matter of voter fraud in the 2020 election.
Mostly true, of the cases I’ve seen mentioned at best you could say he tied on two as it involved observers(of both parties) having more access, but as more observers to better watch things is generally a good thing his ‘win’ isn’t much and it’s certainly not likely to do him much good overall. The rest of his cases though have been laughable dumpster fires, throw out like the garbage they are thanks to being based upon baseless speculation, ‘I head someone else say…’ hearsay and similarly ‘strong’ evidence.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Nah, he tried with the Post Office at least.
Re: Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
“ Fact is, Trump is trying to get legal victories”
And is failing miserably at that so far, because there’s no evidence
Re: Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
‘So are you questioning me with this question as if you are trying to make Biden look good? It’s embarrassing how bad you are at stating facts because trying to trash me, when you obviously are in bias support of Biden with such comments.’
For a non native english speaker, you sure are keen on seeing Trump steal an election.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:2 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
Trump is for law and order. Biden is for war profiteering and a copyright monopoly mafia stooge. In my eyes, Trump is the better candidate. What country I support him from is regardless of these facts I source below. keep on mocking me though and bashing Trump supporters. Many Trump supporters with rational want border security, safety from rampant crime, and peace not war.
If you support Trump, he’s against the lying media, crime, drug/human trafficking and allows states to choose the direction they want to go, many of which have legalized recreational marijuana. Biden, the Crime bill author, war-proteer/monger and his historical collusion with the corrupt copyright mafia lurking around the corner with an entire cabinet of warprofiteers/warmongers, underlines who’s the obvious better candidate and it’s Trump.
sources:
https://www.techdirt.com/search-g.php?num=20&q=joe+biden&search=Search
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkJKOT1FNhA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvMUIT-seK8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRjCaWnrsts&t=58s
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BusmxznLDOo
Re: Re: Re:3
No, he is for order by any means necessary (see: teargassing peaceful protesters for the sake of Trump getting in a photo-op in front of a church with an upside-down Bible in his hand). He doesn’t give a fuck about the law unless it benefits him.
Is that because he attacks the people you hate, or is it because he attacks the people he says you should hate?
…except when it lies in his favor…
…unless he or one of his family members or close associates commits a crime…
…unless it means giving up his Adderall addiction or not letting his foreign-born wife into the country…
…unless they’re “blue” states, in which case they don’t get to choose whether they want to, say, divest funding from police departments to pay for other social programs that could reduce the crime you say he’s so against. After all, what good is a well-run “blue” city/state if it can’t be used as an example of how shitty things can get under Democrat governance instead of Republican/Trumpian rule~?
Donald Trump is a shitty political candidate and an even worse human being who won in 2016 mostly because he stoked the racial fears of “forgotten” White people and presented himself as the only person who could solve all of America’s problems. Your supporting him…well, it doesn’t make you a good person, but I’m sure Trump would consider you a very fine person.
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
based
Re: Re: Re:3 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
"Trump is for law and order. "
I’m curious, what do you think the phrase Law and Order means? Also what about Equal Justice Under the Law? What do you think that means?
What many see in the real world is Law ‘n Order (Rule of Law) being applied to those who lack the ways and means to defend themselves while Rule of Man is applied to the well connected and rich. Two sets of rules, high court and low court. Many white collar crimes are not even investigated, many silly excuses are used, none of them are valid.
Trump is for Trump – that is all. He does not give a shit about anything else, I thought that was quite apparent some time ago but ……
Re: Re: Re:3 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
Trump is for law and order.
We’ll see how much he’s for it once he’s sitting on the working end of it.
Re: Re: Re:3 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
I’m not American either, I care about who’s president of the US because a lunatic like Trump destroying America’s standing on the world stage has emboldened the far right worldwide and has created a power vacuum that far worse players are stepping into.
As for the war profiteer, which president let a middle eastern nation use American troops as mercenaries again? Which one has okayed the selling of weapons and nuclear technology to nations that have absolutely no business having them? Which president has torn up every treaty he could signed by his predecessors purely because they were signed by his predecessors, attacked and insulted the leaders of America’s strongest allies and palled around with dictators refusing to condemn them for assassinating people until he’s left with no choice?
Trump has committed crimes throughout his life, robbing contractors, lawyers, basically anyone who’ll do business with him, giving them a fraction of the money owed then walked away, telling them to sue. He’s currently being sued by one of his rape/sexual assault victims, one of many accusers, by the way, and trying to use the DOJ as hiis personal lawyers on that front. He’s leeched money from the government and accepted money from foreign governments through the businesses he has not divested from, he’s released people around him who’ve been convicted of crimes that benefited him, he’s currently under investigation for many, many financial crimes, but sure, he’s all for law and order.
Trump surrounded himself with Bush era war hawks and his open corruption and incompetence proved to be too much even for them.
Biden is not the best leader America could have, but even on his very worst days he is not a patch on Trump, or the horrors Trump and Pence would inflict on the world when they don’t have to worry about re-election.
Also Jimmy Dore videos? Really? Doomer leftists are great! ‘The centrist candidate isn’t perfect, so let the fascists win and burn everything! Surely we’ll come out completely unscathed and get our way after 8 years of Trump, just like the other parties did in Germany when they stood by and let the Nazis rise to power!’
Re: Re: Re:4 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
What sucks more is that because he wasn’t removed from office I think he still gets a $200,000 a year payment for being president with required secret service protection which his properties can charge outrageous amounts for lodging.
Unfortunately he will be getting money from the US government till he dies or laws change.
Re: Re: Re:5 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
" I think he still gets a $200,000 a year payment for being president with required secret service protection which his properties can charge outrageous amounts for lodging."
According to the reports on his tax returns, he also has hundreds of millions of debt, whose creditors are likely to come calling once he’s out of office.
Re: Re: Re:6 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
And now that they’ll know he’s got the money… oh that’ll be fun, both him trying to keep any of it and the inevitable attention it draws into just why all those strange people keep hanging out around Trump.
Re: Re: Re:6 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
"According to the reports on his tax returns, he also has hundreds of millions of debt, whose creditors are likely to come calling once he’s out of office."
Mainly Deutsche Bank…and those loans are guaranteed by the VTB, the russian state bank.
The people Trump owes that money to are either shady russian oligarchs or Putin. If it’s Putin he’s probably in the clear because he’s delivered everything Putin could ever want from him.
If it’s the oligarchs I’m guessing he may wake to a find Jared’s severed head in his bed as a kind reminder or debts coming due.
Re: Re: Re:7 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
Don’t forget Trupmp also owes a lot of money to the country he handed the world’s steering wheel to on multiple fronts: China.
Re: Re: Re:7 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
Yes, I’m interested in what happens next, although I doubt that they’re just start killing people – we all know Trump doesn’t value human life.
No, if they want to get to him they will go after what he values the most – they will destroy his brand, his money and his legacy. With all the lawsuits in place, the many properties already failing and the legal avenues to call in the debt, they might not even have to do that much.
Re: Re: Re:5 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
He’ll be the first president where his presidential pension is garnished to pay off debt.
Re: Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
Then turn on some Jimmy Dore
…and check out his comedy tour while you’re at it?
Great source you have there, fool.
Surprised you didn’t reference that pill-popping drug addict Rush, or Alex Jones, who lost his kids in the divorce because he was a nut.
Re: Re: Re:2 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
FTFY.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:2 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
Agreed that I have great sources, especially the Techdirt sources, makes you out to be the fool not knowing who’s who, or what’s what or why I linked the sources. Calling me a fool is like calling Mike Masnick a fool ro writing the articles sourced in the Techdirt link.
Trash talking me for linking factual sources doesn’t make you the better person, it makes you the fool for tring to shut me down for speaking the truth, regardless of the factual sources you may dislike but cannot dispute nore debunk.
Re: Re: Re:3
How about linking to some factual sources that aren’t Techdirt and have more credibility than random YouTube videos, hmm? Or can you not step outside your bubble long enough to cite a news source on the level of, say, the New York Times?
Re: Re: Re:3 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
Calling me a fool is like calling Mike Masnick a fool ro writing the articles sourced in the Techdirt link.
Well, you guys whine like a bitch about the site being partisan. Is this an admission that’s not true?
Better get your shit together, Chet because you’re pissing all over the only thing Koby has in his script.
Tell you what – if you can show me a Biden article where he defrauds a charity and pays a porn star for sex right after wife #3 shat out his kid, maybe you’ve got something.
But until then, fuck your feelings and cry harder. Trump lost, pal.
Re: Re: Re:2 Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
Jimmy ‘Too nuts for the Bernie or Busters of TYT’ Dore.
Re: Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
EVERYTHING you accuse Biden of has been done by Drumpf in triplicate (if not more) so fuck right off, asshat.
Re: Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing, and Rocky
The problem with people like you is that you apply one set of rules for "your group" and another set for the "others".
You stated that the only reason people here trash-talk Trump is because they want to make Biden look good, whereupon you then start to trash-talking Biden – which makes you a hypocrite and extremely bad at debating.
And for some reason you think that people who disagree with you or Trump voted for Biden. Here’s a newsflash for you, I didn’t vote for Biden. Now, I do wonder if you can figure out why, but I don’t have any high hopes for it.
Fact is, most of the legal shenanigans Trumps team have tried have been thrown out of court. The case in Pennsylvania is for a couple of thousands votes that was already put aside and never counted, ie they don’t matter one bit.
Fact is, linking to some random dude on YT isn’t presenting facts, it’s presenting someones opinion. You do understand the difference I hope?
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Hey Tim Cushing
Your leading statements in this article are FAKE. Trump wanted accountable, legal, in-person voting. Trump stated this, along with many of his aids, who repeated these statements. What he did not want is massive fraud, which has has happened(though maybe not as perceived). The point is, your headline is misleading. Trump was not as you say "laughed out of court", it’s like what happens in any case, either you get what you want or you don’t. It’s a very rare case that anyone gets laughed out of court, so this article is trash. Oh, yea, and the last bit about you trashing his family was really low. This article is trash.
Re:
And people who weren’t Trumpians generally wanted to not risk their lives for the sake of voting – which is why more Democrat voters did their voting by mail than did the Republican voters who listened to Trump.
Trump’s legal team can’t prove it. How do you expect us to believe you when you can’t prove it, either?
Only if you think people shouldn’t talk about the adult children of Donald Trump, who willingly accepted roles in his administration and implicitly accepted the criticism that they would face by doing so, unless they do so in a way that metaphorically resembles analingus.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:
That’s an interesting point – so now with Republicans voting in person we have herd immunity or just… a herd?
Re: Re: Re:
No. No, we do not.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Well… if he means "we won’t do anything that medical experts recommend so all we have left is hope that the millions of people who will inevitably die before immunity reaches the level that vaccines would take us to", he is correct. Kind of.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
That explains the low, low covid case numbers in the US, i expect.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Republicans are contracting COVID at a much, much higher rate than democrats and democrats, in general, live in much tighter quarters in cities. Trump voters most certainly do not have "herd immunity". More likely "herd stupidity".
Re: Re: Re: Re:
A pack of wild dogs would be a better description. They attack whatever the leader attacks.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:
Democrats and BLM supporters trashed businesses thwarting ppe, and lockdown suggested guidelines. It was OK to do all of that while in a pandemic but not OK to go in and vote with ppe which was in many poling places supplied? Yea, that doesn’t add up. The margins of people dying from Covid are slim, though they are real. People die, people get sick, and people risk their lives everyday driving, those are facts. I don’t see the defense rationale for mail-in voting under the circumstances when all of these other behaviors were OK.
Regardless this argument is an opinion or both sides. Trump just happened to side with the argument I am making and citing likely fraud as one of his arguments.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Actually, I’ve only ever heard of trolls and outside inciters trashing businesses, and the protestors all wore masks (i.e. they didn’t thwart PPE).
Re: Hey Tim Cushing
“Trump wanted accountable, legal, in-person voting”
Yes, because he’s already destroyed the country and the post office to such a degree that he could be sure that only his most rabid supporters would be dumb enough to do that if there was another method available.
“ Trump was not as you say "laughed out of court"”
Yet, the failures to achieve ply an alternative reality have been hilarious
“ Oh, yea, and the last bit about you trashing his family was really low. ”
Apart from Barron, his family are all directly complicit in his failure of administration where they were employed, and that’s rich coming from the party who attacked Clinton and Obamas’ daughters before they reached puberty
Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing
Republicans: Masters of Double Standards since 2016. Practicing novices prior to that.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing
"Yes, because he’s detroyed the countr and the pot office to such a degree thta he could be sure that only his most rabid supporters would be dumb enough to do that if there was another method available."
Stating that Trump has destroyed the country or the post office is a false statement. Trump has helped many Americans and the post office last I checked is doing just fine.
The Democrats have destroyed many states allowing crime, destruction of businesses in small and large cities abroad. Trump opposed the violence and destruction and offered to send in the national guard, but could not do so without consent from the DEMOCRAT lead states the destruction was happening in. This was NOT Trump’s fault, nor was this him being at fault for our country being destroyed. The country is not destroyed, the post office is doing fine, last I checked when I asked someone today, they mail main stil delivered the mail.
"Apart from, Barron, his family are all directly complicit in his failure of administration where they were employed, and that’s rich coming from the party who attacked Clinton and Obamas’ daughters before they reached puberty"
T
I’m certain that the Trumps family sons*excluding barron) and daughters never attacked the Obamas or his before puberty age daughters. Also, Trump’s family, who have been involved in his administration have done many great things to help a LOT of Americans. To sideline Trumps family as being complicit in only failure and no accomplishments is really low.
But hey, it’s apparent you enjoy bashing Trump and his family, you’re a real champ.
Re: Hey Tim Cushing
"What he did not want is massive fraud, which has has happened…"
You have any indication of that more credible than "Dear Leader said it on twitter so it MUST be true"?
Because that’s the reason every lawsuit so far has been thrown out of court. The judge, upon asking the plaintiff to present the case finds the plaintiff has no case to present. The plaintiff has an outright lie about republicans not being present to monitor (which, it turned out, they were). The plaintiff has an unsigned post-it note from an unknown source which says an unidentified person stuffed two ballots in the box.
The only thing Trump’s lawyers have consistently failed to present is any indication of voter fraud more convincing than "some guy in da pub dun tole’ me dem democrits wur cheatin’".
Let alone something as tangible as proof, Trump’s whole case for claiming there’s fraud relies on Trump himself claiming there must be. That’s it. Full Stop.
Re: Hey Tim Cushing
Which is why he privously had no issues with mail-in voting (himself). Funny, huh?
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing
As far as I understand Trump had no problem with absentee ballots, which is what he used himself.
You are falsely asserting that Trump was OK with mail-in voting due to mail-in fraud concerns.
Re: Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing
And just how does that differ from mail in ballots? A different name for the same thing does not change the thing.
Re: Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing
Let us review some examples of what Trump think of absentee ballots:
Seems reality disagrees with your assessment.
Re: Re: Re:2 Hey Tim Cushing
He and his wife – one of the "good" types of immigrants – had no problem trusting the system when they cast their absentee ballots for Florida elections.
Re: Re: Re:3 Hey Tim Cushing
Genius visa – lol
Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing
Donald also hasn’t contested Utah’s results despite it being all vote-by-mail since 2013 (probably because it voted in his favor).
In fact, Donald hasn’t contested the results of any state that are all vote-by-mail states (Oregon 2000, Washington 2011, Colorado 2013, Utah 2013, Hawaii 2019).
The only states he has contested still have in-person voting as an option despite the pandemic.
Re: Hey Tim Cushing
"Trump wanted accountable, legal, in-person voting."
Please explain how in person voting makes voting accountable whereas other methods are not.
Please explain what fraud was feared by the present administration and what fraud they actually uncovered.
Face it, you are a fraud.
Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing
"Please explain how in person voting makes voting accountable whereas other methods are not."
Because D voters are more likely to be sane and not risk their actual lives in the face of a global pandemic, they are more likely to vote that way.
"Please explain what fraud was feared by the present administration and what fraud they actually uncovered."
From what I’ve heard, some R voters were intimidated by black people also voting, while some others imagined that TV vans unloading their equipment might have been votes being uploaded.
Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing
"Please explain what fraud was feared by the present administration and what fraud they actually uncovered."
Well, so far their whole case appears to be "Democrats voted! It’s NOT FAIR! WAAAH!!"
And they have a post-it note with scribbles on it to "prove" those voting democrats were cheating. And some guy they can’t name, who said he heard the democrats were cheating, in a pub they can’t name, at a time they don’t remember.
It’s unbelievable. 1 out of 3 americans live in a fantasy land where the physical laws of reality are dictated by the conspiracy theory of the week.
Re: Hey Tim Cushing
Trump was not as you say "laughed out of court"
Technically you may have a point. Trump wasn’t, but his lawyers were.
Oh, yea, and the last bit about you trashing his family was really low.
Well they are pieces of shit, frankly – two idiot sons, a couple of useless bubbleheads for daughters, and a mail-order whore for a wife.
What isn’t trashy about them?
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing
Nothing you have said is true about Trumps adult children and or his wife and amounts to slander and defamation of their characters. You just want to say the meanest thing you can posibly say just to say it.
Re: Re: Re: Hey Tim Cushing
Well, he was fucking around with her while married to #2, and it isn’t like she didn’t know he was married. That kinda does make her a bit of a pig, doesn’t it?
I’m not trying to diminish the fact that trump himself is a shitbag for fucking around on his wives. It’s his character. But it also takes a slut who’s willing to be the one that the guy fucks around with too to square the circle.
Re: Re: Re:2 Hey Tim Cushing
What about the fact that the woman he fucked was a porn star?
Re: Re: Re:3 Hey Tim Cushing
"What about the fact that the woman he fucked was a porn star?"
That kind of makes it worse. It likely means that he views sex as a business transaction like any other, and the feelings of his wife and family were secondary to his getting what he wants. Which is not surprising, but doesn’t reflect well on any party.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Misunderestimating Trump
This article reminds me of the idiotic takes on Trump that prevailed in the various Progressive bubbles before the 2016 election. The making fun of a person and strategy that has every chance of winning, not just despite the supposedly laughable flaws in the person and strategy but because of them; the bizarre faith in traditional processes, norms, and legal institutions to maintain a sensible status quo; the can’t-see-the-wood-for-the-trees approach to what’s happening in the wider context and outside the bubble; the total inability to see and understand the world the way your opponents do (and to extrapolate from that what’s about to happen); etc. It’s just too depressing to enumerate all this….
Face it — the best that can happen now is Biden wins a poisoned chalice, with maybe half the country believing the election was rigged against Trump. The worst that can happen? A soft coup, of course, probably done entirely legally.
Re:
Well, glad to see some people are fine with the downfall of American society as we know it thanks to a fucking game show host.
Re: Re: Re:
It’s not just "some people" — it’s probably going to be nearly half of the US electorate over the next couple of months. And that’s what we’re up against…
Re: Re: Re: Re:
And the truly messed up thing is that’s still the better of the two possible outcomes.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:
Biden is the downfall of America, not Trump. Trump isn’t the best candidate, but he’s the best we have under the circumstances compared to the disaster of a cabinet Biden brings.
I didn’t vote for Trump in 2016 and I certainly didn’t vote for Biden. I wanted Third party anti-war candidate and doctor Jill Stein in 2016. I was hoping Tulsi Gabbard or Bernie would be the candidates to vote for, but when it was Biden. knowing how the DNC screwed both Biden and Tulsi and vowing to never have either candidates be nominees. There was only Trump left, and knowing how corrupt Biden is, compared to Trump. I vote for Trump, hands down.
The media and his opponents say the meanest untrue and biased stuff about Trump because their financial backers from the military-industrial complex, copyright monopoly maffia and hillary supporters are in it to do as much defamation damage as they can to win.
Well, I’m sad to see some people are fine with the downfall of American society as we know it thanks to a fucking warmongering, warprofiteer, copyright monopoly mafia facist that’s going to leave the border wall unfinished so the violent drug/human trafficking cartels can get through and make America less safe.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Calling bullshit. No proof whatsoever.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
I know you’ll never admit it, but I’m looking forward to laughing at how wrong your predictions are.
another Trump scam
The real reason for all of Trump’s election invalidation efforts is revealed in his fundraising emails to his Cult of Trump supporters. Read the details, and Trump is soliciting donations from his gullible fool supporters for a Trump Campaign 2024 slush fund, and to pay off his 2020 campaign debts, and to fill his own pockets (as he leases the 2024 campaign office space, hires his family as ‘advisors’ to the campaign, and sells them $3 glasses of water, etc. Trump is just trying to extract one last bit of cash from the gullible fools who believe that son-of-a-millionaire, self-described "billionaire" Trump is not one of "the elites" taking advantage of them all. Fools and their money are… constantly targeted by Trump and the "conservative" grifters surrounding him.
Re: another Trump scam
Grifterz gonna grift
'I swear I had the evidence, maybe I left it at home?'
There is something just so very entertaining watching members of Trump’s cult go from confidently yelling about how ‘There is definitely fraud!’ to mumbling that they have a sticky note or an anonymous claim and would the judge pretty-please accept those as valid evidence?
Funny how being in a position where lies have very real potential consequences can cause a massive shift in confidence and claims, almost as though lies are conspiracy theories is all they have and they’ll left with nothing when those are taken away.
TODAY: Michigan Court News
“Michigan Judge Denies Injunction, Finding Trump Supporters’ Conspiracy Theories Lacking in Detroit”, by Adam Klasfeld, Law and Crime, Nov 13th, 2020 (marked 1:18pm)
The text of today’s Michigan decision is embedded in the Law and Crime story.
Re: TODAY: Michigan Court News
Just in the last 10 days alone that makes Trump a 15 time loser (14 lawsuits and the presidency). He must be shooting for the world record for Biggest Loser Ever.
Re: Re: TODAY: Michigan Court News
Those keeping track of the numbers could add in this evening’s news from Pennsylvania to that total.
“Judges rule against Trump campaign in 6 Pennsylvania cases over absentee ballots”, by Katelyn Polantz, CNN, Nov 13, 2020 (updated 7:49 PM ET)
Anyone know an updated total number?
Re: Re: Re: TODAY: Michigan Court News
‘We are going to lose. We are going to lose just so much it’s going to be amazing, until people get tired of us losing.’
Re: Monday Afternoon Coda [was TODAY: Michigan Court News]
Postscript: Appeal DENIED in Michigan state case according to @KlasfeldReports.
Earlier today, Andy Olesko at Courthouse News had a story, “GOP Voters Take Fight Over Detroit Election Results to Appeals Court” (Nov 16, 2020) which furnished a copy of the appeal that has now been denied by the Michigan Court of Appeals.
That same story also provides links for other documents from the case originally filed in Wayne County Circuit Court.
TODAY: Arizona case moot
“Trump campaign drops Arizona lawsuit requesting review of ballots”, by Kara Scannell, CNN, Nov 13, 2020 (updated 1:36 PM ET)
From the court filing linked in the CNN story:
That is to say, the vote margin is just too bigly.
Re: 'Even if we win we'll still lose, so never mind.'
Will wonders never cease, at least one person involved in Trump’s latest tantrum does know how to admit a loss and bow out with their dignity intact(well mostly, they did represent Trump after all).
Re: Re: 'Even if we win we'll still lose, so never mind.'
Perhaps you recall from news earlier in the week that the biglaw firm of Snell & Wilmer already dropped their representation. From Reuters Legal last Wednesday:
Re: Re: Re: 'Nope. No way we want our name attached to this.'
Having an entire law firm nope right out has got to sting, but the best part has got to be how quick they were to bail as from my perspective at least it leaves the impression that they took one look at the case and booked it as quickly as possible:
Snell & Wilmer partners Brett Johnson and Eric Spencer first moved to withdraw on Sunday, a day after the case was filed.
Re: Re: Re:2 'Nope. No way we want our name attached to this.'
Btw, don’t confuse Snell & Wilmer, who dropped out of the Arizona case earlier this week, with the other biglaw firm of Porter Wright, who are in the news today.
In the Middle District of Pennsylvania litigation, the motion to withdraw by attorneys at Porter Wright Morris & Arthur was granted today.
So it’s actually two entire law firms who’ve gone “nope right out”. Though, all the same, still gotta sting a bit, I guess.
Re: Re: Re:3 'Nope. No way we want our name attached to this.'
Thanks for that, always nice to have a chuckle and seeing entire law firms bailing from the SS Trump(‘The Very Best Ship’ as described by the captain, ignore the alarmists saying it’s currently sinking into a cesspit) is most certainly laugh-worthy.
Re: Re: Re:4 'Nope. No way we want our name attached to this.'
@ScottGreenfield does have one cautionary piece of analysis today:
So one should not be too quick to leap to any potential conclusion that Snell & Wilmer or Porter Wright could be motivated by a sense of either ethics or patriotism. Yet ‘concern for future brand-perception’ might possibly fit under money.
Re: Re: Re:5 'Nope. No way we want our name attached to this.
Ah, now that would also make perfect sense, I could absolutely see a large law firm demanding pay upfront, and given Trump’s current ‘fundraising’ effort is split between paying for the current legal battles and previous election stuff I don’t image they’d be willing to take an IOU.
The real plan isn’t to succeed with these lawsuits, because the amount of votes the lawsuits are contesting aren’t enough to swing the election to Trump.
The real purpose is to delay certification of the election results past the December deadline. If that happens, it can be claimed that since there’s no certification, the states can appoint electors for whichever side they choose. Failing that, if there’s no clear result (because the results aren’t certified), it goes to the House to decide. Unfortunately if that happens, each state only gets one vote, and which side gets to vote for that state is governed by whichever side has the most representatives in that state. Democrats have more seats in total, but the republicans control more states, so having the house decide the election would be putting it in republican hands.
There’s also the danger that the republican controlled lawmakers in some states will want to appoint electors for Trump. As I understand it, they can’t currently do that, but SCOTUS might be willing to hand them that power now that they have Barrett. They were previously split 4-4 on the issue.
Scary times ahead. I’m not going to be unclenching until Biden is actually sworn in.
Re: Every accusation, a confession
Strange, intentionally delaying the election results after they resulted in a loss on their side just so they could rig the election by bypassing the public and have a forum that they control decide instead sure sounds a hell of a lot like election fraud, I never would have expected the same person/party who’s been accusing the other side of that crime to engage in it themselves…
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re:
Exactly, that’s why Trump is GREAT! If that happens, which I hope it does, America will be saved from Biden’s warmongering/profiteering sh*t show. So screw you Biden/BLM supporters!
Re: Re:
I am continuously amazed at the notion that Trumpians would prefer fascism over democracy. Then again, it really is all about domination at any cost with them, so…
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Sadly I’m not surprised at all by this point, Trump’s cult is based upon fear, petty spite and hatred and with a bedrock that toxic it’s hardly a wonder that they would consider anything fair game as long as they think it’ll benefit them(which can and absolutely does include sticking it to The Other, even if it harms them too), with the only surprising/disgusting thing just how many people of that sort there turned out to be in the US.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
They’ve always been OK with fascism so long as they can be in charge. It never occurs to them that they won’t be.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Trump’s following is a cult. Trump is a cult leader. This is pretty much all the explanation you need. Like any cult, the members are blindly devoted to their leader and will believe anything he says. Everything he does is good in their eyes. Trump could get up on stage at one of his rallies, declare that everyone in the audience disgusts him and that he hates them all, then start flinging his shit into the crowd and they’d cheer even harder for him. They would consider it an honor to get hit in the face with his feces.
Re: Re: Re:
Exactly, that’s why Trump is GREAT!
Absolutely! Count those ballots 7 or 8 times – I can watch reruns of him fucking losing all day long while sipping a glass of conservative tears.
Re: Re:
But it’s looking pretty clear that’s not going to happen either. Lawsuits are getting thrown out by incredulous judges at a rapid clip. The Trump team’s arguments simply aren’t good, and I don’t see any indication that they’re going to stop any states from certifying their results by the deadline.
The states have about three weeks left to try it and then appeal to the Supreme Court before the deadline to certify the votes. So far, none have given any indication that that’s the route they plan to pursue.
It also bears noting that this isn’t 2000; the election hasn’t come down to one single state. Say Pennsylvania doesn’t certify its EVs by the deadline, or the legislature picks a new set of electors, somehow, despite the state having a Democratic governor, and Pennsylvania casts its EVs for Trump. What happens then? Biden still wins. He has 306 EVs. He needs 270. Take away Pennsylvania’s 20 and he’s got…286.
So okay. What if it’s Pennsylvania and Georgia? That takes away another 16 and gets him to…exactly 270. Biden still wins.
This isn’t as simple as 2000 was. Bush only had to steal one state. Trump is going to have to steal at least three (or perhaps steal the two biggest swing states and get at least one faithless elector to cast a vote for him).
It’s not gonna happen.
Re: Re: Re:
If there is one thing that four years of Trump’s GOP has shown is that you should never underestimate them because there is no low they will not sink to to protect their power and/or grow it, so while the odds may be incredibly low that he’ll manage to game stuff enough to win personally I’ll be waiting until he’s ‘escorted’ out of the WH for good by security(because I doubt his ego will allow him to leave voluntarily and admit defeat) until I’ll consider it safely over and ‘only’ have to worry about his deranged and psychotic cultists both in office and out.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
I think he will leave, probably in the middle of the night. He knows that would be less humiliating than being escorted out at noon on inauguration day with everyone watching.
And his 2024 presidential run.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
He knows that would be less humiliating than being escorted out at noon on inauguration day with everyone watching.
Make that a pay-per-view event available globally and you could make a not-insignificant dent in the national debt.
And his 2024 presidential run.
That’s certainly a horrifying thought, all the more so as the presidency has been great for getting him the attention he so desperately needs, making it all too possible he’ll make a go at it just as Biden’s cleaning up Trump’s mess(or at least some of it, the damage Trump’s caused will require many years even under ideal circumstances).
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
I’m not sure Trump winning the nomination in 2024 is a foregone conclusion. He won the nomination in ’16 with only 45% of the vote based on universal name recognition, a shitload of free media coverage, an opposition that didn’t coalesce around a single candidate until late in the race, and a bunch of states allocating delegates on a winner-take-all basis. Going into 2024, he’d still have the name recognition and the media coverage, but he’d also have the stink of failure on him. He’s the first president to lose reelection since 1992 and he cost his party Arizona and Georgia. He didn’t cost down-ballot Republicans as badly as expected, but he cost them their House majority in 2018 and has shrunk their Senate majority in 2020.
I expect we’ll be seeing a lot of Republicans in the next couple of years trying to distance themselves from Trump without alienating his supporters. That’s not going to be as easy as it was with Bush, because Bush knew how to shut up and accept that his party needed to distance itself from him if it wanted to win the next election; Trump isn’t going to shut up and go away.
And I haven’t gotten into the legal troubles he’s facing yet. He’s managed to stall various investigations for years, but even if Biden’s DoJ decides not to prosecute him for anything, he’s still got the State of New York to contend with.
There’s a core of Trump supporters who will support him no matter what he does. But we’ve already seen that core wasn’t enough to win a general election. I’m not convinced he’d do better in the 2024 primary, even assuming he wanted to risk another humiliating defeat.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
I picked up this AP story earlier today, “Trump aide promises ‘very professional transition’ to Biden” (by Jon Gambrell):
The National Security Adviser, of course, is not in the direct chain of command of anything, nevertheless he may be somewhat tuned-in to the mindset of those responsible for the security of the nation.
Anyone want to bet on whether Trump will fire O’Brien for these remarks? He does serve at the pleasure of the president.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
I’m not questioning their morality, I’m questioning their ability.
Trump has gotten away with a shocking amount during his presidency, but he has very little to show in the way of legislative accomplishments, and his court "victories" have usually just been years of stalling followed by the courts eventually either saying "no, you can’t do that" or "you can only do some of that." Republicans have milked their Senate majority for all it’s worth, and Trump’s gamed the courts pretty much by stalling cases for years on procedural grounds and continuing to do what he’s doing in the meantime.
But I ask you: how does either of those things lead to Pennsylvania not declaring Biden the winner?
Explain it to me. Explain Trump’s path to preventing 270 electoral votes from being certified for Biden. None of this "well he’s done a bunch of other bad stuff" vagary; explain how he’s going to do that specific bad thing.
I don’t believe his ego will allow him to be escorted out by security, either. I think he leaves under protest and insists to his dying day that the election was stolen, but I think he leaves under his own power.
Frankly I’d expect him to hold a rally at the same time as the inauguration, except I know how obsessed he is with crowd sizes and I know he doesn’t want to invite that comparison.
That’s a good and reasonable thing. Trump will never concede the election, and he’s laid the groundwork to try to steal it.
The point I’m making is that he doesn’t have a realistic way of doing that. Not anymore. If it had come down to just one state like in 2000? Then I’d be worried. But it hasn’t.
Give me a plausible path from here to Trump winning the EC, or even just delaying the certification so that nobody wins the EC, and I’ll listen. But until then, it’s fantasy. It’s perfectly reasonable to be concerned about what Trump and his supporters will do for the next two months and beyond, but for God’s sake, worry about the right things.
I think there’s going to be violence in the streets. That’s what we should be worried about. Not obscure constitutional edge-case fan fiction.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Admittedly my concerns are vague enough and my knowledge of the legalities are lacking enough that I can’t give you a specific way he could do it as they’re mostly based upon all the horrible stuff he’s done and gotten away with and the fact that basically throughout his entire presidency the republican party has backed him no matter what, but I suppose I see your point in that there’s no good to be had jumping at possible threats to the country when there are very real ones on the horizon irrespective of what happens.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Trump is an easy target
Tumps apparently is an easy target for you all to write about. But it’s not Trump who’s actually doing anything wrong. He’s just taking every legal avenue he can to try and win, instead of giving up. I think though it is funny to some degree, that he’s great for not giving up. I’d rather have a president that can take insult to injury and keep on defending and fighting for America.
All you Trump haters suck.
Re: Trump is an easy target
Ok. Several orders of magnitude less than Trump himself or any of his rabid fans, but ok.
Re: Trump is an easy target
You are funny, you are talking about someone who regularly rage-tweets when someone say or do anything that upsets him in the slightest. Someone who calls his opponents for disparaging names. Someone who can’t stop speaking lies. Someone who fires people because they have actually have some principles. Someone who have worked very hard to break the separation of powers.
If you think that is defending "America", there is no hope for you.
Re: Trump is an easy target
You mean Trump haters like “GOP megadonor” Sheldon Adelson, owner of the Las Vegas Review Journal.
“Editorial board of Adelson-backed newspaper tells Trump it’s time to face reality”, by By Nick Niedzwiadek, Politico, Nov 12, 2020
Trump-haters like “GOP megadonor” Sheldon Adelson. That guy sure does suck.
Re: Trump is an easy target
"I’d rather have a president that can take insult to injury and keep on defending and fighting for America."
Trump’s a bully who can’t take what he dishes out, or else he would govern instead of cry-tweeting about how Saturday Night Live made him look bad.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Trump is an easy target
SNL can’t do comedy anymore so they use insulting Trump as their scapegoat. Trump isn’t a bully, that’s your opinion, not a fact. Trump is a businessman, he gets things done and has helped a LOT of Americans.
Re: Re: Re:
Then what do you call his sustained attacks and insults against people he perceives as his enemies, including (but not limited to) Colin Kaepernick, Kamala Harris, Nancy Pelosi, and Hillary Clinton — the same kind of “locker room talk” as “grab ’em by the pussy”?
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Oh you mean the swamp?? Yea, that’s because they are, so he calls it like it is. But you are entitled to your opinion that Trump is a "bad" guy, when he’s not.
Biden on the other hand, loudly pushed the Iraq War, then took the USA from 2 wars to 7, turned Libya into a failed state w/open slave markets, dropped MORE BOMBS than George Bush, 26,000 bombs in 2016 Plus they tortured Chelsie Manning, and prosecuted whistleblowers.
Re: Re: Re: Trump is an easy target
"Trump isn’t a bully"
You know what? I’d like some of your drugs, they must be making 2020 seem like a great year with the way they seem to flip reality to the opposite of what everyone else sees.
Re: Re: Trump is an easy target
Trump has done far worse to his reputation than SNL ever could.
Re: Re: Re: Trump is an easy target
Yeah, that’s why SNL had to stop with the Trump impressions. They ran headlong into Poe’s Law and had to admit they just couldn’t come up with a parody dark or toxic enough it would be worse than factual reality.
Re: Trump is an easy target
Trump had four years to prove himself. He had four years to build the Mexican wall and put Hilary Clinton in jail.
Not only has Trump done none of the above, which I might add was a key tenet of his campaign promises, he had to defund his own military to pay for the wall construction, and see his own men – Cohen, Manafort – sent to jail. Half of whom he threw under the bus when their usefulness expired.
I don’t know what definition of "defending and fighting" you’re using, but it’s a terrible definition.
Re: Re:
He also didn’t repeal the Affordable Care Act. (And he never put forth that mythical “replacement” plan, either.)
Re: Re: Re: Re:
That was due to a clerical error, somehow the ACA replacement got printed on the back of his tax returns and since he just couldn’t seem to find the one the other was out as well.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
I think he started getting some pushback on that, especially when people around him realised that "removing protections for pre-existing conditions from millions of unemployed people during a pandemic" was not going to be the best look for their re-election chances.
Re: Trump is an easy target
Tumps apparently is an easy target for you all to write about.
When you’re the fuck up that trump is, the material writes itself, does it not?
All you Trump haters suck.
Boy, that hurt.
Re:
And they’re all failing, in both short order and quick succession. Sooner or later, he — and you — will have to accept reality, whether you like it or not.
Trump lashes out at anyone who dares to criticize him in even the kindest possible way. He doesn’t take insults well — he gets pissed-his-diapers angry and throws a tantrum.
No, honey, I blow.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re: Re:
And they’re all failing, in both short order and quick succession. Sooner or later, he — and you — will have to accept reality, whether you like it or not.
No, they aren’t failing. I think he’s got a strategy at hand to prevent state certification for him to win and they are stalling tactics. And if it works, you will have to accept reality, whether you like it or not, Trump is planning to stay for the greater good of the country.
Trump does take great insults every day, it’s apart of being a president or high profile leader, so you’re wrong there.
OK, so you blow, great character you have there. Regardless, some love trump for trying to restore America to having jobs, job security, border security/safety and has helped every American one way or another. America needs Trump, and it’s sad no other candidate was a better option, because it isn’t Biden.
Re: Re: Re:
Yes, they are.
So…his plan is to take over the presidency he couldn’t win by using the courts to delay certification of the valid vote counts and getting his Trumpian cohorts in state legislatures around the country to vote him in despite the actual vote counts (as they stand now) giving Biden the win both popularly and electorally?
That’s fascism, yo. It’s literally undermining democracy for his own selfish purposes. You’re literally saying Trump plans to stage a coup d’état. What the actual fuck, man.
Oh, I’ll accept the reality that Trump used fascist tactics to take over the White House despite a free and fair election saying he didn’t get a second term. And then I’ll fucking fight to have him removed from office for his coup.
And what about the people he’s hurt or tried to hurt — including (but not limited to) the people whose medical insurance he would’ve wiped out with a repeal of the ACA or transgender people who were serving (but now cannot serve) in the military? Do they not count as people to you, or do you care even less about them than Trump does?
America doesn’t need fascism, no matter how much you want Trump to make you lick his shoes and thank him for the privilege.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
So…his plan is to take over the presidency he couldn’t win by using the courts to delay certification of the valid vote counts and getting his Trumpian cohorts in state legislatures around the country to vote him in despite the actual vote counts (as they stand now) giving Biden the win both popularly and electorally?
Besides showing how much contempt they have for democracy, ‘law and order’ and the country there is one side-effect from that defense/argument that I suspect they didn’t consider in that if cheating the system is acceptable then it works both ways, such that even if the claims that there was massive, wide-scale voter fraud in Biden’s favor were true(they aren’t) then there would be absolutely nothing wrong with that as it would simply be how he decided to stack things in his favor.
Re: Trump is an easy target
Bullshit. No proof provided for your claims.
So let me get this straight, the republicans are accepting the results for the senate and the house, but not for the president – which was on the SAME BALOT?
Re: Re:
Not ALL Americans agree that the results of the outcome of the election are factual, and instead, were manufactured consent by the media opponents to Trump, that Biden would win, and has won as a result.
The majority of Americans did not vote for Biden if you look at the map as it stands, at least 24-25 (about half) went to Trump, that’s a LOT of people who are rooting for the president to remain in office, like it or not.
Re: Re:
You are free to your opinion. That doesn’t mean that everyone sees it that way.
Re: 'Only votes for our guys count!'
Of course, as this election and the song and dance after it has shown every good Trump cultist knows that the only legal vote is a republican one with democrat votes nothing but attempted fraud, hence the calls to only count the ‘legal’ votes.
Re: Re: 'Only votes for our guys count!'
And calls to stop counting ballots in states where Trump was ahead but absolutely keep counting in states where he was behind.
The funny part was that had every state stopped counting when Trump said to, he would have still lost the election. Bloody idiot.
Re: Re: Re: 'Only votes for our guys count!'
That gets me every time.
‘Fuck the voters, stop counting!’
‘Fine, you still lost.’
‘Wait…’
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Obviously the author and many commenters hate Trump.
So reading all the comments and the article I thoughtt I would chime in.
You know what? I don’t think Trump is leaving anytime soon, and I’ll be glad if he stays. There’s a criminal investigation of the Bidens and other sources involving actual fraud, unlike the unproven court distraction filings used to delay state certification.
As for the comments from the Trump supporter mobbed by haters, just give up. There’s too much bias for Biden to get them to listen and understand that Trump is the better candidate, even if he’s not the perfect one. I’m sure they’ll make fun of me for sticking up for you.
This article was written with the mentality that "oh, hey lets trash Trump" and ad a swipe insult at his family too to add insult to injury. Was it o purpose, of course, the author hates Trump.
Trump is a smart guy and many of his supporters are too. Trump is stalling state certification if he cannot get victories from the remaining undecided states. Even if that fails, I am certain that he will not concede power to the corrupt Biden administration attempting to succeed him. The million MAGA march proves Trump’s support is strong and so long as he has this kind of support, I doubt he’ll go anywhere.
I didn’t vote for Trump in 2016. I voted for Jill Stein because Hillary was too corrupt and a warmonger( I think about her laughing like an evil villain when Libya’s leader died). But Biden’s too corrupt to have gained my support this year to have voted for anyone else but Trump. I blame the DNC for forcing my decision on that, their party’s head and close DNC party leaders vowed to never allow Sanders to be a nominee, and of course, they (the DNC and their media allies) screwed Tulsi Gabbard out by arbitrarily shutting her out of debates even though she qualified.
In addition, mentioned in earlier comments by another user I noticed he mentioned about the wall needing to be built to prevent crime from coming through the border into our country, he’s right. Also, almost every law enforcement agency nationwide backed Trump, because they knew he was the better choice.
Finally, with the knowledge that the corrupt entertainment industry wants a political puppet(Joe Biden) to push their draconian bills such as SOPA, etc. For me, it was a no brainer to pick Trump. I just wish Sanders and Tulsi Gabbard teamed up and had of went third party or independent, then hands down they would have had my vote.
Go ahead and do your worst with your hateful comments for being a patriot and saying what I’ve said and voting for Trump. I’m waiting for all the untrue slander and statements that I didn’t say under copy/pasted text I’ve written like the other comments. I’m not going to prove anything to you over your arguments etc, I’m just making a statement and that statement is, I VOTED FOR TRUMP AND I AM NOT AFRAID TO ADMIT IT AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU COULD SAY TO ME TO CHANGE MY MIND THAT BIDEN IS THE BETTER CANDIDATE WHEN HE’S NOT.
Re:
If Donald Trump is so smart, why are a quarter-million Americans dead from the COVID-19 pandemic?
Re: Re: Re:
Because his plan to kill many more through complete inaction was slowed by states jumping in to save their own people?
Re: Obviously the author and many commenters hate Trump.
"You know what? I don’t think Trump is leaving anytime soon, and I’ll be glad if he stays"
You’ll be glad if the ignores a democratic election result, thus destroying the very union and America’s democracy as a whole? I have a feeling your happiness would be extrordinarily short lived.
"There’s a criminal investigation of the Bidens and other sources involving actual fraud"
Wait till you see the number of lawsuits Trump is fighting, and that’s before the people who are holding off their lawsuits until they don’t have the stigma of suing a sitting president start filing…
"Trump is a smart guy"
Lol
"push their draconian bills such as SOPA"
The one that was written by Republican Lamar Smith?
" I VOTED FOR TRUMP AND I AM NOT AFRAID TO ADMIT IT"
That’s OK, people will prefer the idiots keep identifying themselves rather than trying to fool people into thinking their opinions have merit as the country repairs itself from the disasters he wrought upon the country. It makes the clean-up easier.
Re: Obviously the author and many commenters hate Trump.
Why do these hateful comments, as you put it, bother you so much?
How much are you being paid to be bothered by these comments?
Remember the sticks ‘n stones rhyme?
Why do you hate the fact that someone disagrees with you?
Re: Obviously the author and many commenters hate Trump.
He lost, pal. Might as well suck it up and prepare yourself for the oncoming backlash for being one of the ‘fuck your feelings’ crowd while trump was in office.
Elections have consequences.
Calling you a moron for voting for trump and telling you to cry harder now he’s lost is just something you and your thin-skinned pals are just going to have to get used to, snowflake.
You set the tone over the last 4 years. Now get used to it.
Re: How's that saying go, 'fuck your feelings'?
Most people wouldn’t be so open with their contempt of the democratic and process and support for open corruption, but you do you.
Re: Obviously the author and many commenters hate Trump.
I VOTED FOR TRUMP AND I AM NOT AFRAID TO ADMIT IT AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU COULD SAY TO ME TO CHANGE MY MIND THAT BIDEN IS THE BETTER CANDIDATE WHEN HE’S NOT.
I really don’t care, do u?
Re: Obviously the author and many commenters hate Trump.
Unless you have reason to believe that the feds can find what all these people could not, and that enough of the votes would be changed to make a difference in enough states to actually change the results, I fail to see how that will change anything. Maybe it would make Kamala Harris or Nancy Pelosi President instead of Biden, but it still won’t be Trump.
Well, for one thing, if we’re biased, we’re biased against Trump, not for Biden. Most of us see Biden as simply better than Trump but far from ideal. We also don’t simply accept claims of massive voter/election fraud without substantial credible evidence and can do math. There were a few who claimed that voter/election fraud might have happened in 2016 that favored Trump that would have changed that election, but we didn’t believe it then, either. And that election was much closer than this one.
Slight problems with that plan (which is also fascist, anti-American, and anti-democratic, btw):
Re: Re: Obviously the author and many commenters hate Trump.
Yes, but in that case each state gets one vote, not each representative. I wouldn’t venture to guess how such a vote would go since that hasn’t happened in almost 200 years, but Trump could very well win it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_election
Monday Morning In Georgia
Plaintiffs’ Notice of Voluntary Dismissal (Nov 16, 2020) in Brooks v Mahoney III in the Southern District of Georgia.
Here’s a New York Times story from last Friday, “Trump Is Not Doing Well With His Election Lawsuits. Here’s a Rundown.” (by Emily Bazelon, Nov 13, 2020) which provides a brief summary of the issues which had been raised in this now voluntarily-dismissed Southern District of Georgia case.
Monday Morning In Wisconsin
Plaintiffs’ Notice of Voluntary Dismissal (Nov 16, 2020) in Langenhorst v Pecore in the Eastern District of Wisconsin
Here again is a New York Times story from last Friday, “Trump Is Not Doing Well With His Election Lawsuits. Here’s a Rundown.” (by Emily Bazelon, Nov 13, 2020), which also provides a brief summary of the issues which had been raised in this now voluntarily-dismissed Eastern District of Wisconsin case.
Re: Monday Morning In Wisconsin
No need to get laughed out of yet another court when the case already served it’s purpose of PR to con gullible fools out of their money.
Monday Morning In Pennsylvania
Plaintiffs’ Notice of Dismissal (Nov 16, 2020) in Pirkle v Wolf in the Middle District of Pennsylvania.
Here yet again, for the third time, is a New York Times story from last Friday, “Trump Is Not Doing Well With His Election Lawsuits. Here’s a Rundown.” (by Emily Bazelon, Nov 13, 2020), which also provides a brief summary of the issues which had been raised in this now voluntarily-dismissed(*) Middle District of Pennsylvania case.
―
(*) In this case, I’m relying on the “voluntary” designation in the docket entry to presume the case status.
Monday Morning In Michigan
Plaintiffs’ Notice of Voluntary Dismissal (Nov 16, 2020) in Bally v Whitmer in the Western District of Michigan.
This one is a case that Emily Bazelon’s New York Times story last Friday, “Trump Is Not Doing Well With His Election Lawsuits…”, didn’t run down.
So, for the latest, let’s motor over to the motor city… Detroit’s WWJ Newsradio 950 AM!
Re: Monday Morning In Michigan
So we’re turning this article into the "out_of_the_blue sucks" version of the Nunes memo thread?
I can get behind this…
Re: Re: Monday Morning In Michigan
Can we even call it that when said troll hasn’t shown up in this thread?
It’s honestly surprising, you’d think he’d be all over a topic like this. Him and his pissed pants.