Sony's Neverending War Against The Freedom To Tinker And Innovate
from the learn-to-let-go dept
We recently compared Sony’s lawsuit against GeoHot for adding functionality (that Sony had removed) to PS3s, to Sony’s attack on Aibo hackers a decade ago. With somewhat perfect timing, Philip Torrone has now put together a full list of Sony’s ongoing “war” against “makers, hackers and innovators.” You can read all the details at the link, but here’s the list that he’s working from:
- Sony DMCA delayed disclosure of Sony BMG rootkit vulnerability
- Sony threatens Aibo hobbyists for creating software that enables Sony?s Aibo robot dog to dance
- Sony sues Connectix and Bleem to block software that allows gamers to play their PlayStation games on PCs
- Sony attacks PlayStation ?Mod Chips? and enforces a system of ?region coding?
- Sony sued Gamemasters, distributor of the Game Enhancer peripheral device, which allowed owners of a U.S. PlayStation console to play games purchased in Japan and other countries
- Sony removes OtherOS option, removes Linux support
- Sony is suing makers, hackers, and tinkers for jailbreaking of the PS3 to play homebrew games
What’s really amazing in all of this is that Sony keeps making the same anti-maker mistakes over and over and over again. It’s as if they don’t understand that these people are adding value and making Sony products more valuable.
Filed Under: freedom to tinker, hackers, innovation, makers
Companies: sony
Comments on “Sony's Neverending War Against The Freedom To Tinker And Innovate”
FUD anyone?
Sony is suing makers, hackers, and tinkers for jailbreaking of the PS3 to play homebrew games
Can you show me a case where Sony has sued any single tinkerer who did work in their own home, without public discussion or public disclosure? Nope, has never happened. The only people they sue are people who break systems and provide that hack for others to use.
If you want to take your PS3 and turn it into a speak and spell, Sony won’t care – until you put the methods and software hacks required online or otherwise distribute those hacks.
The rest is all pretty normal legal action, to protect their copyrights, and in turn to protect the business models that allow them to do it.
Nobody is stopping innovation, you are free to make your own game console tomorrow. Knock yourself out.
Re: Re:
These devices are so technologically complex they were engineered by teams of hundreds, thousands of people to prototype, bring to market and iterate. Do you really think just one, solitary person could break into, modify and gain from it in a week or a month? What about a decade? It took the guys to break open the PS3 the efforts of dozens of very intelligent folks to collaborate over months to get somewhere significant in their endeavours. Secondly the idea of “make your own damn console” is completely short sighted – the CPU in the Playstation 3 took years, 3 gigantic corporations and $550 Million. Not including the rest of the console.
“..to protect their copyrights” completely misses the point of the argument. People are purchasing things and being told what they can, and can not do with them – and when they share what they could do, they are litigated against. At what point does copyright come into this equation? Both geohot and fail0verflow have maintained and made efforts themselves to mitigate piracy – all they wanted was to run their own code which did not infringe on others (including Sony’s) copyright. Sony had given them the ability to do so with OtherOS which is why, for years the PS3 was “unhacked” – until Sony removed this outlet.
Try this: Hardware maker makes a carpentry tool. Carpentry enthusiasts realise that they want to modify it to use their own accessories/extensions and figure out how to do so. Said enthusiasts then give away, completely gratis the methods and means for doing so. Tool manufacturer sues for copyright infringement. This is how many in the maker, hacker communities see the geohot et al v Sony case.
Re: Re:
You just asked if Sony had sued anyone who they have failed to catch. That’s what is meant by someone who did their work in their house and never told anyone.
This isn’t FUD. Everything he stated is a fact. It has had direct consequences for consumers … if if not for you in particular.
Re: Re:
What’s the point of innovations and advancements if you can’t share?
That’s the problem. Corporations are anti-sharing, whereas people learn to share as toddlers. People make advancements, corporations shut them down to protect their revenue.
In a capitalist society, people who contribute and make valuable products should succeed. In this broken system, innovations are held back so bloated worthless entities can make a buck.
If we can innovate, we can damn well share it.
How then do you keep the online service playable? I understand wanting to mod stuff that you own and offline I don’t care what you do to your console but what about those who use those same tools for cheating and thus ruining the service for everyone else who plays. Part of the appeal of the PS3 for me was the FREE multiplayer. An while it still will most likely remain that way it won’t be very fun anymore when people use this to cheat.
Is there anything cool you can do with a modded PS3? All I know if is adding Linux and playing copied games. Hell, ACTroll’s idea for a speak and spell is cooler then what’s out there now.
I do want to add this, but make it separate so people can look at it by itself:
I have to wonder. This week you are all over the MPAA, all over Sony, all over ICE, and all over Righthaven. What I see is someone getting “worried” because the legal actions that each of these groups are taking are changing the landscape, and also putting pressure on the government of the US and others to take action to protect the rights of content creators.
I think you have seen where the future goes, and you don’t like it. The future isn’t that free everything fairyland you have been promising here. The tone is changing, the mood is shifting, and tolerance is dropping.
It’s fun to watch you lash out at the people who are eroding your world view.
Re: Re:
Ooooh Mike touched a raw nerve there lol.
Re:
Sony is well within their rights to ban anyone from their PS network for any reason including cheating. I personally agree with Sony banning people from PSN for hacking their system. I do not agree with the legal threats Sony brings to anyone who is willing to show others how to do things.
Re:
It’s horrifying to watch people allow a dictatorship to roll in.
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
Hello Coward!
Please clarify your position:
Are you against freedom of speech or owners’ rights?
Re:
So why shouldn’t enthusiasts be allowed to publicly discuss their tinkering efforts on hardware and software they legally own?
Re:
it seems like, rather than going lawsuit-crazy, it would be much easier and cheaper to create a small team whose job it is to build security measures for detecting cheating and warning/banning the players.
Re:
Hell, he’s not just watching. He’s cheering them on.
And he has the audacity to say it’s “to protect the rights of content creators”. Disgusting.
But it’s clear why he does it. Dictatorship-level enforcement means more work for the IP lawyers. What a lowlife.
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
Neither per se. He’s pro IP lawyer and lobbyist employment rights.
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
Are you against freedom of speech or owners’ rights?
Nope, not at all. However, unlike some people, I understand that those rights are often intermixed with the rights of others, and that many people make basic presumptions about things that are wrong, in order to try to understand them better.
Owners rights are a great example. You buy the hardware, but you only get a license to the software. You replicate and resell the firmware or OS from the Sony box, as you don’t own it – you have a license for it. You can sell it on if you sell the box to someone else, but only if you retain no license and no copies yourself.
You could, if you liked, completely rip out the firmware and OS and make your own (without any Sony code) and do what you want with the hardware. That is your ownership right. But you would have to do it without cracking or hacking Sony’s code.
Free speech really doesn’t enter into this one, except that free speech isn’t unlimited, and the communication of methods to break the law (and encouraging others to break the law) isn’t considered protected speech, and are actionable.
Your free speech (and other rights) is a bubble around you, limited by everyone else’s bubble of rights. Your rights are not endless, nor are anyone else’s. Absolute freedom is but a pipe dream, unless you are the last human on earth.
Re: Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
> But you would have to do it without cracking or
> hacking Sony’s code.
See Pro-lock v. Copywrite.
Re:
Is there anything cool you can do with a modded PS3? All I know if is adding Linux and playing copied games.
US Air Force connects 1760 PlayStation 3’s to build supercomputer.
Re:
“Small team”
Take a look at the efforts to block cheating on open systems (i.e., PC)…punkbuster, valve, and Blizzard’s in house stuff.
This is a big investment we’re talking. Not a side project.
Re:
It’s quite easy to spin what you say in the other direction. Techdirt has indeed seen where the future goes, and it is not towards greater protection and stronger IP laws. Those things are essentially impossible: there is no such thing as effective DRM and no such thing as unpirateable content, and there never will be. Given the nature of what is happening in the world since it became so gloriously interconnected, it is inevitable that information’s tendency to be free will overpower its tendency to be expensive.
Given that, when you see companies and creators attacking their fans, throwing temper-tantrums or reducing the value of their product with DRM and removed features, one thing is abundantly clear: they are digging their own graves. Much more frightening is when the government is complicit in this, because it erodes respect for the rule of law and teaches entire generations that those in power are clueless about the realities of technology.
And so a blog like Techdirt highlights these things, because it is the right of every consumer to criticize commercial entities, and because it is the duty of any informed citizen to criticize the government when it violates people’s guaranteed rights.
Legally owned
It’s ironic that Sony, based in Japan, with a number of tinkerers to cars in the 80s would disallow the tinkering of their software in trying to control people such as the AIBO tinkerers.
It’s almost the same as saying tinkering with my phone isn’t allowed because it’s an AT&T phone. It’s not their business for that, just to have a product and service it. I take full responsibility for my own hacks, but that doesn’t mean I’m costing them money by showing the world that hey, I want my value from my PS3/AIBO/minidisc than what Sony offers.
Re:
Hmm… okay yeah, that’s true. But I still wonder if it would cost more than this quixotic legal campaign, because I doubt it…
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
Why don’t these brilliant creators just keep their creations to themselves as you suggest the creative modifiers do? Once it is out there, it’s out there. Were not going to dismantle the US Constitution in order for you to crusade against a natural human action such as sharing.
Please go to Libya and join Gaddafi as I believe you would get a long well.
Sony’s stance on region coding has ensured that I won’t buy another Sony product.
I moved from Australia to the USA a year ago, and brought my Australian bought PS3 with me. It worked fine and I was using it to watch Netflix here in the USA using the Netflix DVD.
When Netflix moved to the non-DVD app on the PS3 last year the update brought with it a new region check which would not allow me to install the Netflix app on my Australian PS3.
So, here I am, sitting in the USA trying to pay for a US service on a legitimately bought PS3 to watch legitimately paid for movies, and I can’t.
Sony just make it too hard, and again they took away something that was working.
Work with me on this one...
Ooh! Ooh! I know what Sony oughta do!
Here’s the plan:
They wanna control their stuff *all the time*. Since they don’t seem to realize that putting stuff for sale on the open market inevitably results in their loss of control, they need to set up an exclusive closed market where member/buyers willingly and contractually cede control of their purchases back to Sony, in exchange for bragging rights and an attractive certificate, suitable for framing.
Sony products would be removed from the general marketplace, and available *only* through this exclusive distribution channel.
Call it Club Sony, and charge the punters 50 bucks for the privilege of membership. The mothercorp will be saving money on legal bills, as well as generating another much needed revenue stream.
Shareholders will respond favourably to this bold, new monetization vector, and fanbois will rejoice at having finally trumped Apple in the all-important “Aren’t We Special” demographic. Most importantly, Sony will quickly receive a patent for this breakthrough business model, resulting in a stunning Q4 earnings boost of $2.4B as a result of strategic licensing partnerships with major manufacturers covering a broad spectrum of consumer goods.
Unfortunately, mere weeks before this fundamental redefinition of the manufacturer/consumer paradigm reaches it’s tipping point, a hitherto unnoticed meteor the size of Rhode Island will interrupt a perfectly lovely Sunday morning by smashing into the Earth a few miles east of Liverpool, eradicating all the remaining 5 traces of intelligent life on the planet, and pretty much everything else.
4 billion years later, a middle level marketing guy will push back his chair, scratch his left antenna and think to himself “Wait a minute… that’s an idea…”
Re:
I understand wanting to mod stuff that you own and offline I don’t care what you do to your console but what about those who use those same tools for cheating and thus ruining the service for everyone else who plays.
i don’t think that being kept off of online play is at issue among the jailbreak community. i could be wrong, but most hombebrew types don’t expect to be invited to the PSN/XBL party.
the executer chip in my original xbox had a kill switch so you could shut the mod off in order to play xbox live.
Re:
So what is your take on what Sony did to Bleem? The short version is Sony took Bleem to court several times, lost every case and kept going after Bleem with various lawsuits until Bleem went bankrupt.
Let me reiterate – Sony lost every lawsuit it brought against Bleem and they kept filing until Bleem went bankrupt.
Also, let’s not forget the shenanigans Sony pulled at the Bleem booth at E3 1999. Sony tried to pull one over on the show management by claiming there was an injunction against Bleem and tried to get the show to pull the Bleem booth. There was no injunction.
Re:
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
LOL.
Laws are polite fictions which are only followed when convenient.
Good luck enforcing legislation which takes away from people the qualities which make them sapient beings.
Anyway, control over a population is an illusion–no matter how it seems, you never had control over anybody, they just let you think you did.
Re:
Exactly. And seriously, do you win money or something if you’re the best at one of these games? I don’t understand the *point* in cheating at a video game against other people.
Re:
You mean has Sony sued anybody it didn’t know about? Wow, such a good point you have there, not. Because Sony tries to lock people’s devices up, collaboration is a key to people being able to hack their own devices, so, yes, Sony is stopping innovation.
No what is really amazing is people continue to purchase Sony products. I made an active decision after the rootkit situation to boycott that company, and I’ve stuck to it 100%, even including movies with Sony affiliations. I plan on never giving a dime of my cash to Sony, ever again.
Troll food nom nom nom
What a bunch of BS AC. This one is worthy of FAUX “news”
“legal actions that each of these groups are taking are changing the landscape” – Brilliant propaganda. Unfortunately that “landscape” as you choose to call it are basic principles of what is fair and right. I know common sense is scarce in your fantasy land.
“putting pressure on the government of the US and others to take action to protect the rights of content creators. ” – While trampling on the rights of everyone else.
“I think you have seen where the future goes, and you don’t like it.” – You like the path this country is on? Really?
“The future isn’t that free everything fairyland you have been promising here.” – F’in off your rocker. They have meds to take care of that ya know. Not anywhere did I see Mike advocate a “free everything fairyland” Smarter business sense, and innovative business models, which would normally be praised, but since that involves doing away with the current gatekeepers, Mike and this community gets ridiculed. Nice.
“The tone is changing, the mood is shifting, and tolerance is dropping.” Just perfect conditions for tyranny.
“It’s fun to watch you lash out at the people who are eroding your world view.” – Yeah ok buddy. You really are a legend in you own mind.
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
If creative modifiers want to start from scratch and create something new, more power to them. They just don’t get the rights to take Sony software, change the logo, and claim it as their own. They don’t have the rights to take 99% of Sony’s code, add in a small amount of their own, and claim it to be legal.
I really don’t get you on this one. You seem to be supporting people who take from others without permission. On that basis, can you please send me your computer?
Re:
I would imagine that you’re right but there are enough people out there that would use this stuff to cheat and since it’s software based my understanding is that it’s much harder to detect. So in the end it will be the people who played by the rules (i.e. those who aren’t using it to cheat) that end up being punished.
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
Actually, that is precisely false. That is the entire point. You do NOT own the hardware, because the hardware has DMCA’d elements to it, which are an endrun around 17 USC 109.
The problem is that, very precisely, Sony is arguing that you don’t own the hardware either, you are just licensing it. Sony is arguing that, in fact, the process of ripping out the firmware violates your EULA. Personally, I find this to be idiotic, but it is what they are arguing, and if you think that you “own the hardware” well, quite plainly, you are incorrect. This should strike you as deeply, deeply problematic.
Re:
Herp a lumpin’ derp. If you do something in the privacy of your own home and tell abso-lumpin’-lutely no one about it how could Sony hear about it to sue you? I’m not saying they necessarily would, but you’re basically asking people to give you a case where Sony reacted to something they could never possibly know about. Give me a case where you knowingly responded to someone yelling out your name 1000 miles away (without the use of phones or other technology) and maybe you’ll have a point.
Re:
OK, that is mildly cool, but that’s probably something the average hacker wouldn’t bother doing. It also depends on the “Other OS” option on the PS3 since they clustered a bunch of Linux boxes.
I could easily add more than a dozen other points to that list. The only point in that article that I disagree with is the premise that Sony used to be a consumer friendly company that has somehow lost it’s way in the last decade.
Fiddlesticks.
Sony always has hated, and always will hate, capitalism. It has simply found capitalism a useful tool to leverage its power. The betamax case was merely their effort to shift gatekeeper status and give the keys to Sony instead of the people who held them at the time (being able to wrap their efforts in the guise of “consumer protection” was simple cloak and dagger stuff).
All anyone has to do is see what they’ve done AFTER they attained some measure of gatekeeper status to see how they really feel about consumers.
What Sony – and they aren’t alone in this – wants (and I’ve argued this point for close to 20 years now) is a return to Feudalism, except instead of controlling the land you live on, they want control of your possessions. In the end, if they have their way, you won’t actually “own” anything, you’ll just being “leasing” it from them.
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
I have not looked at the agreement that comes with a PS3. I don’t own one. If there is software that cannot by seperated from the software, I could see where they are going.
No matter what, it is only a situation that would apply to the people who would choose to try to break up the package. I am not sure if that is all that problematic. First sales rights are retained (you can resell your PS3), so I am not sure where the problems are. If you don’t want the product, perhaps you shouldn’t buy it.
Re:
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/
next!
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
Wake up. Theres a new breed of humans who dont think that software or any other imaginary property can be owned. Enjoy defending the old guard, while it lasts.
What’s really amazing is that people keep buying Sony products even after the root kit and other attacks target at it’s customer/suckers
Re:
You’re right. IT isn’t a free-everything fairyland. What’s happening in the content marketplace is that the cost beyond initial outlay for software is approaching zero. You can compete with free, but only if you add value to the content.
Steam is a good example of this. Their DRM, whilst there, is almost minimal for all Valve games, and the content-maker can add their own to it.
At the other end of the scale are Sony and Ubisoft. I sold my PS3 shortly after the OtherOS removal, because I didn’t like that one. And Ubisoft’s DRM for both Assassin’s Creed II and the Prince of Persia games for the PC made me vow never to buy anything from them again. When you have to crack a game, just to play it when you bought it legitimately, pisses a consumer off, and GUARANTEES that there will be a consequence of lost sales.
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
Ok I will send you my Pontiac G8 computer and in turn you will release the info needed to recode the computer with my own settings making it more useful to me.
Re:
Oddly enough, I think you’re wrong. I’ve been keeping up with the Xbox modding scene ever since my dad got me one so he could see Linux running on it. Back then part of the instructions basic told you to give up on XBL if you do it.
Now a days, I hear everyone bitch and moan about how they got banned after they modded their 360s. I seem to be in a small minority when I ask them what the hell they expected. You mod your box, if Microsoft can ban you, they will. But, a lot of people expect to be able to play on XBL and still mod. I’m all for Microsoft (and Sony in this case) banning them.
Just say no
Sony has its right to treat its customers any way it likes. However, if you don’t like the way that Sony, or any other company for that matter, then don’t become a customer. The net result is that they will have only happy or complacent customers and you will be happy not to be under the thumb of the tyrant.
Re:
If you want to take your PS3 and turn it into a speak and spell, Sony won’t care – until you put the methods and software hacks required online or otherwise distribute those hacks.
Do you really expect every single individual to have to replicate doing the same hardware tinkering, software programming/testing/debugging themselves with no help from the others who are doing the exact same things? I
Collaboration is an absolutely necessary part to working on complex systems and code that is millions of lines long. Building off what others have done is the core principle of all innovation.
Nobody is stopping innovation, you are free to make your own game console tomorrow. Knock yourself out.
A complete and transparent lie.
You seem to be under the impression that Sony designed, built, programmed the code for, and manufactured their game consoles without standing on the shoulders of all the thousands of innovations in the electronics industry of the past 100 years.
Re:
Because if this were to happen the terrorists would win. Crackers would use the money they get from webhits to buy more opiates which in turn supports the Taliban. The Taliban in turn will use that money to enable purveyors of kiddy-porn to further wreak havoc on way of life. For you see, some of us don’t support terrorists and pornographers, we support a simpler way of life where citizens have no rights. Where a multinational conglomerate is free to use the Constitution as toilet paper and persecute anybody who even discusses ways of tinkering with their technology. But then again I’m your average American and won’t give a damn about any of this until it starts affecting me personally. Now get off my lawn and let me watch my NASCAR!
(Note: I am an American and am thoroughly disgusted with my government)
Re:
To be fair to Ubisoft, they’ve decided to take away the always on DRM.
BUT new releases still get the always on DRM… I don’t know why, but that’s just more work for them…
Re:
There isn’t much…yet. Heck when the Wii was first cracked there wasn’t much in the way of homebrew either. After a few months the developers came out of the woodwork. On my Wii (what an unfortunate, giggle inducing name) I have a small webserver, FTP server, and emulators for NES, SNES, and GBA. I received a borked PS3 as payment for rescuing some data about a year back, I installed the firmware and am running Linux on it. I was hoping to use the cell processors to generate rainbow tables or do other types of insane parallel processing but so far my PC’s video card still outperforms the entire PS3 (in this context). The point is that once the system is easily installed and accessible, I believe you’ll see a lot more neat things appearing in terms of homebrew.
Unfortunately, this list is far from complete. For a prime example of Sony’s thinking, read up on the difference between the PlayStation Portable, and the newer PSPGo. Without adding any real improvements (other than a slightly larger screen and a few other minor points), the PSPGo would only play downloadable, heavily DRM’d games, and could not play any of the games you had physically purchased for your PSP. The PSPGo also was not compatible with any of the PSP’s power cables, cords, or peripherals.
In summary, they wanted you to purchase an inferior machine that required 4+ hours of downloading OS updates and a game before you could even play it for the first time, plus you would have to re-buy all of your games and peripherals.
Not very friendly to their customers.
Fools
It really doesnt matter what you do to your console, as long as you dont break any laws.
The question here is what should be legal and what shouldnt.
Ill repeat my other anectdote, what if Chevy sued you for adding nitrous to your car? Doesnt make much sense does it?
For those of you who are on Sony’s side, give us some reasons, rather than shooting down Mike.
And no, I wouldnt like the way the future looks either if it is full of this crap. If I want to do ANYTHING ON EARTH to my PS3, and tell all of my friends about it, it should be legal. Why make it illegal?
If they want to stop copied games, they can go after the people who uploaded them in the first place.
In the mean time, this is all the more reason for me to hard-mod my PS3, and never give them any money for a game ever again.
I still buy nintendo games, I dont see them suing the pants off of people. Nintendo is smart, adding devices such as snowboards and steering wheels and balance boards makes it impossible for me to pirate the games.
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
So how is it wrong that I turn my PS3 into a mega transforming robot of death, my friend wants to do it to and so I show him? Isn’t it HIS right to do what I did? What if my guild in WoW wants to know because they want to create a video of dancing PS3s? How is it wrong for them to want to do it as well?
Your thinking is flawed. You say its ok that I do it, its my right, but how is it my right and not other’s right too?
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
About it being a licence, explain to me how?
I bought my PS3 with cash, paid over the counter. At no time did I sit down with a Sony representative and sign a licence agreement to use the installed software. I know, first time I boot up, I press X to agree, but that goes against the very nature of free sale, in that if I don’t agree to these licence terms POST SALE, my PS3 turns into a very expensive paperweight.
I’m interested in one day turning my PS3 into a Home Theatre PC. It would save me money, in that I wouldn’t have to build one myself. All the required hardware is there, I just have to replace the hard drive (Blu-ray drive, HDMI port, Dolby/DTS Audio, hard drive to store media). However, according to Sony, I’m not allowed to do that. OtherOS wouldn’t have been enough, as I wouldn’t have had access to all the processors or the GPU.
Also, please answer me this.
I bought my PS3, and it was advertised as being able to support Linux. I thought “Great, I can practice using Linux, and still play games/blu-rays”. Then Sony freaked out and said they were getting rid of OtherOS. They held my console hostage. They said I could keep OtherOS, but lose the ability to play any games/blu-rays manufactured in the future and lose access to the Playstation Network, or I could lose OtherOS and keep the abovementioned features. They reached out post sale and treated me like a criminal, despite the fact I had paid Sony, either directly or indirectly, cash for the console and games/blu-rays. What part of this do you defend?
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
“If creative modifiers want to start from scratch and create something new, more power to them.”
This defeats the purpose of science. Basically you are suggesting that anyone is free to invent anything, as long as they build it from scratch. This basically means that:
– Every painter would have to invent a canvas, a paint brush and colors (for example).
– Every musician would have to invent new instruments
– A mathematician would have to rediscover Algebra, Calculus and every other branch of mathematics just to do his job.
– A computer scientist would have to reinvent computers to make a Python script.
Nobody does that (well, there are geeks, like me, who do it for the sake of learning). The creators/scientists just take far more than 99% of what was already done before, and add a grain of sand. But that grain of sand might be the difference between you living in the (cultural/scientific) Dark Ages or you posting angry messages in a random forum (for fun/great justice).
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
“This defeats the purpose of science”
*And culture! Don’t forget culture!
Christ, you’d think Techdirt would be done beating this dead horse. We get it. Sony is bad for doing the same thing many other companies do. Look how hard Apple fought jailbreaking the iPhone. MS will gladly fight against modding of the Xbox 360. It’s business as usual whether you like it or not.
Re: Re:
Worst of all is that Mike makes you to come to this site and he personally holds your eyelids up and forces you to read everything on here!! Every day!!!
Come on Mike, Set the Shill Free! *lights candle*
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
How about if I create something that modifies Sony’s code, but I’m not distributing their code, I’m only distributing mine, which allows you to add back in the ‘Other OS’ functionality?
Re:
…and reporting on it is Techdirt’s business-as-usual, whether you like it or not
Does Sony know how much money they are loosing by doing this.
From the time Sony started this mess
I have bought
3 x MP3 players
2 x Desktop computers
2 x Laptops
3 x TV
4 x cellphones
and will be purchasing a new laptop this weekend
NOT ONE ITEM LISTED WAS sony
Re:
Pfffft! You’re just angry, because, well, FREETARD!!!
Re:
Can you show me a case where Sony has sued any single tinkerer who did work in their own home, without public discussion or public disclosure? Nope, has never happened. The only people they sue are people who break systems and provide that hack for others to use.
So doing a particular activity is okay, and legal, as long as you don’t tell anyone that you did that particular activity. Free speech never looked so good!
Re:
there are enough people out there that would use this stuff to cheat and since it’s software based my understanding is that it’s much harder to detect.
well, not for microsoft it isn’t: http://articles.cnn.com/2009-11-12/tech/cnet.xbox.live.ban_1_banned-modern-warfare-informationweek?_s=PM:TECH
live/PSN are services, and in the case of live, it’s a paid service to boot, so banning folks from the service for mods/cheats is fine by me.
Re:
Same here. They are next to Creative on my list of companies I won’t ever purchase from.
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
You really don’t get what you’re talking about, do you?
Re:
Is there anything cool you can do with a modded PS3?
crack crypto:
http://hackaday.com/2008/12/30/25c3-hackers-completely-break-ssl-using-200-ps3s/
molecular biochemistry:
http://www.gpugrid.net
(used to be ps3grid.net, but now the site doesn’t mention the PS3 at all)
Shoot yourself Sony
It’s Sony’s stance on these issues that make me say, “No way”, when I looking at cameras in the store. They have some sweet looking, nicely priced cameras, but I just won’t buy a piece of gear from a company that is as hostile to users as Sony.
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
That’s not the problem here–you are deliberately ignoring the fact that Sony changed the game AFTER the initial sale. They took away the ability to use your own OS for example.
Shoot yourself Sony
I actually removed Sony from consideration when buying a camera because they insist on using their nonstandard Memory Stick, which nobody else uses.
Of course, even if they used a more standard format (like CF or SD), I would still remove them from consideration because of things like the Sony Rootkit.
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
That would likely be considered a tool to circumvent copy protection.
Re:
That’s what I’m waiting for. My PS3 has a bad DVD drive so I can’t do much with it. I don’t care about pirating games, I really don’t care about Linux, I just want to have a cool use for that shiny black peace of plastic sitting next to my TV (I want XBMC in HD).
The real problem is that Sony doesn’t want to let it get far enough to do cool things with it. They’re trying to stop it here and now. Oddly while people can only put Linux on it and pirate games. Sony needs to back off so we can get the good stuff.
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
…and the communication of methods to break the law (and encouraging others to break the law) isn’t considered protected speech…
Really? What about this?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/manual-molest-children-legal-cops/story?id=11561609
Re:
“Can you show me a case where Sony has sued any single tinkerer who did work in their own home, without public discussion or public disclosure? Nope, has never happened. The only people they sue are people who break systems and provide that hack for others to use.”
In today’s connected society, find me a hacker who DOES NOT COMMUNICATE with ANYONE. What kind of idiot hacker would tinker in his garage and not tell his buddies about it (at the VERY least).
Bleem
I bought Bleem and had the pleasure of playing Final Fantasy VII (which I also purchased) on my PC. I would’ve never bought the game otherwise, and would’ve been deprived of its enjoyment. Sony deprived me of enjoying many of their other titles back then since the Bleem support ended. Sony should’ve supported Bleem so many other PC-only gamers like myself could give Sony more money for their game. They missed out.
Re:
Mike isn’t worried, he’s frustrated that these changes are being made by industry funded lobbyists. The average citizen has no power to overcome such blatant abuse of power unless he can publicise said abuse and organise a civilised resistance to unfair practices.
These changes are for the good of the few, and their wallet, NOT for the good of the many.
I know where I want the future to go. It involves people like Sony, the RIAA and MPAA seeing sense and concentrating on their core business and making fans, rather than shareholders, happier. This future also includes anonymous cowards holed up in jails, with their rear ends being used for target practice.
Re:
Don’t forget Monster Cables.
Re:
people often accuse others of faults they are unwilling to acknowledge in themselves.
just, ya know, food for thought.
Re:
my list of ‘entertainment related companies to avoid’ is so freaking long that i keep forgetting what’s on it.
i really should write it down at some point.
oh, and then there’s the idiocy of the Good developers who don’t do stupid shit being tied to platforms which are owned by morons who do it anyway.
Re:
and the other companies get raked over the coals for being moronic arseholes when they actually do stuff that techdirt hears about as well. lately it’s been Sony’s turn, that’s all.
Re:
now, Those are ACTUAL lost sales. well, maybe. certainly more so than most ‘piracy’ related examples.
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
“They don’t have the rights to take 99% of Sony’s code, add in a small amount of their own, and claim it to be legal.”
And Sony has the right to remove functionality you thought you bought? Oh yes, of course they do, it’s in their EULA, even if it does suck and piss people off.
In the old days, hardware was hardware. It didn’t change, it didn’t get bug fixes ture, but it didn’t devolve. Today you have something wonderful which can be updated daily if need be, but that can also be used against people if the man so chooses
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
They don’t have the rights to take 99% of Sony’s code, add in a small amount of their own, and claim it to be legal.
Sorry you’re wrong there. You can do what you like provided you don’t make unauthorised copies of Sony’s code. What you are doing is overwriting parts of it. You can do that – just like you can cut up a book you legally own and paste it together in sections with your own text inserted in between. You can also issue intsructions to the rest of the world to let them do the same thing. Sony are just using legal bullying here – against people who (they figure) don’t have the resources to defend themselves. They don’t have any real legal legs to stand on.
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
I have not looked at the agreement that comes with a PS3. I don’t own one. If there is software that cannot by seperated from the software, I could see where they are going.
No – you are confused here. You own the hardware – just like you own a CD with copyright music on it. Copyright prevents you from making copies – it doesn’t prevent you from modifying the original instance that you own. All hardware has “inseparable software” – that is the deign of the hardware which you are not allowed to copy – but nothing prevents you from modifying your piece of kit unless you use the modification to make an illegal copy of the software. However you can make modifications for any other purpose.
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
Please go to Libya and join Gaddafi as I believe you would get a long well
Wait, it was my understanding that you get a deep well for agreeing to move to Libya to hang with Gaddafi. A long, deep well to hide all your Baby Jessicas in.
Re:
Do a proper design of the way the console and the online system interact and you won’t have a problem. MS and Sony are just using strongarm tactics to cover for their technical laziness.
Re:
I think you have seen where the future goes, and you don’t like it. The future isn’t that free everything fairyland you have been promising here. The tone is changing, the mood is shifting, and tolerance is dropping.
It’s fun to watch you lash out at the people who are eroding your world view.
Good to see you’re still alive, Colonel…
What’s the weather like in Tripoli?
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
It’s worth pointing out that for anyone to make use of this knowledge, that have to buy a PS3.
They are literally suing their customers. It’s breathtaking, really.
Re:
It’s ridiculous how much I am now reliant on XBMC. Truth be told, you can probably build a decent machine with a media player chassis that can output at 1080 on the cheap. I built mine for about $350. It obviously can’t play the games that a PS3 can, but it has a 4 second cold boot time and connects to my 8TB server for all of my photos, movies, music, and TV shows. I’m also in my 20’s without any kids so it’s easy for me to dedicate a few days to building, configuring, and programming an interface. I can definitely see how a PS3 configuration (properly done) for XBMC would be boon for people without the spare time for computer hobbies.
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
But you cannot distribute the tool or code to do it, as it would be circumvention.
Sorry, try again!
Re:
Slightly warmer than the place you find your nose, but it doesn’t smell like Mike’s dinner.
Re:
Actually, you might be surprised.
Much of the “not Sony” stuff you bought may in fact be designed by Sony, using Sony designed chips or circuits, or using Sony developed technology.
Good luck trying to figure out which is and which isn’t.
Re: Re:
Or not. Since he already checked.
Re:
You don’t get it do you? You’re only leasing/renting the stuff. :'( sadly. Same goes for any Mobile device like android or iOS
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
Sorry – you can distribute code that has a substantial legal purpose other than circumvention of copy protection – you try again.
Re:
Wrong – for a start (in case you hadn’t noticed) Android is an Open source system.
Second the idea that you are renting/leasing is wrong. It is FUD, disseminated for the convenience of the companies involved. If you don’t believe me try asking any of these companies to come and retrieve their old “rented” products when you have finished with them.
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
I have not looked at the agreement that comes with a PS3. I don’t own one. If there is software that cannot by seperated from the software, I could see where they are going.
No matter what, it is only a situation that would apply to the people who would choose to try to break up the package. I am not sure if that is all that problematic. First sales rights are retained (you can resell your PS3), so I am not sure where the problems are. If you don’t want the product, perhaps you shouldn’t buy it.
How would you feel if one day the dealer that you bought your computer from, came to your home and re-flashed the BIOS in your system such that the sound was permanently disabled? Would that be fair?
If not, why do you support Sony doing exactly the same kind of thing to the PS3?
Re:
It wouldn’t, but the approach needed to arrive under-cost would go utterly against the grain of Sony’s entire existence as it would involve working with the very hackers they’re trying to stop…
Re:
Now a days, I hear everyone bitch and moan about how they got banned after they modded their 360s. I seem to be in a small minority when I ask them what the hell they expected. You mod your box, if Microsoft can ban you, they will. But, a lot of people expect to be able to play on XBL and still mod. I’m all for Microsoft (and Sony in this case) banning them.
Yeah, look what a huge problem modding has been for computers, where people are free to tamper with both the hardware and software. You probably don’t remember all the doomed MMORPGs that were swiftly killed off by the evil modders, like World of Warcaft and Second Life. They should have known better than to try releasing online games for a platform that isn’t tightly locked down with tons of DRM. They went bankrupt so quickly I’d be surprised if anyone at all remembers them…
Re:
Steam is a good example of this. Their DRM, whilst there, is almost minimal for all Valve games, and the content-maker can add their own to it.
While I’ll admit that Steam may not be as bad as some other forms of DRM, I’d hesitate to label Steam as “good”. First of all, all games that are linked to Steam inherit Steam’s system requirements, which can change retroactively. When Valve eventually decides to increase Steam’s minimum requirements to Windows 7, anyone still using XP is going get a rude awakening when all their games stop working.
You can’t install Steam games on any system that doesn’t have a net connection. Furthermore, if you forget to authorize offline mode, you can’t play single-player games if your connection goes down, or you go traveling with your laptop.
Some of the third-party games that they sell through Steam have been altered such that store-bought expansions and fan-made patches & mods sometimes don’t work. Some games have also been modified slightly for copyright reasons.
Also, there’s the myth that if Steam ever goes down, Valve will release a patch to de-activate the DRM, ensuring that players can still access their games. Is Valve willing to put this promise in writing? If not, it doesn’t mean a thing. The main reason Steam would go down is if Valve goes out of business, which looks unlikely now, but no company is bullet-proof. If that were to happen, I doubt that they’d have the resources left to make and distribute a DRM removal patch. They also may not be able to so do legally. Sure, they can do it for their own games, but what about all the games from other companies that they’ve distributed? Do they have blanket permission to remove the DRM from all of those in the event that Steam goes down? What if Valve is bought by another company? Again, unlikely right now, but not impossible. If that were to happen, it wouldn’t be Valve’s decision.
Also, even if Valve did release a patch to remove the DRM, where would people buying physical copies of games like Half-Life 2 and Portal, get all the patches and updates from? Is a company that is going out of business going to spend time and money to get patches to all their games uploaded to various sites on the net?
History has proven that “selling” content which relies on remote DRM servers is never a good idea.
Re:
Muppet how do people learn?
Networking is so effective that everybody does it, that is why we have conventions everywhere, so trying to stop the spread of information is trying to hold something back in this case innovation and creativity.
Also it is eroding the right to own something.
Re:
Eroding your world?
Yes I like that, people are eroding the world of monopolies LoL
Re:
Depends on their motivation, many people involved in 3D graphics are building their own computer cluster to render things faster, just do a search for DIY supercomputer and you will see.
Re:
And if you are paying $$ and not prohibiting cheating you fail…no lawsuit involved… fail… next!!!
Re:
You’ve got a good point. Since this is related I’ll throw it in. Before Christmas I was shopping for some graphics software. I saw a bundled set from Corel that included Corel Painter, one of their photo manipulation software packages, and a 4gb flash drive. All for under $40 US. Sounds like a great deal. One little problem, EVERY time you use the software, it wants to call home and verify that it’s legitimate. In other words you have to have a internet connection to use the software. I passed and bought Sketchbook Pro 2011. Sony, Valve and others are shooting themselves in the foot and then shooting their customers in the foot for spite’s sake.
Banning modders from THEIR network is not a problem to me, the problem is their not seeing the obvious. If people find their product fun to mod, they’ll sell more product. Which, I thought, was their objective. It would appear they not only want to sell product, but, to remain in complete control of said product after it leaves their hands and they’ve been paid. The only way to maintain that kind of draconian control is to lock their product in their warehouses and never sell them. Again, is that the objective? And this is a good business model?
I also ceased buying from Sony after the rootkit fiasco. Specifically after having to remove it from a client’s computer. The client was an elderly couple who’s only “crime” was listening to a Sony CD on their computer. The shop I was working for had to charge the elderly retired folks a fee this Sony virus. If there were true justice in that situation, all the bills for removing this garbage would have been footed by Sony. Every last one of them.
Re:
There is a solution for you. Sony wont like it and it might take a bit of time and patience though.
Seeing as how you bought the PS3 in Australia you are still covered by the Trade Practices Act specifically section 52. Under this all you need to do is contact Sony Australia and ask them to remedy the situation. Remember Region Coding too is unlawful under Australian laws (and products sold) for DVD’s and equiv [though not for BlueRay sadly]
They either Fix (repair) the problem, Exchange it for a model that will allow it [remembering you might oneday move back to the land of the free consumer 😉 ], or fully refund your original purchase price. YOUR CHOICE!
Just because you now reside within the USA, you have not given up your statutory consumer warranty rights of merchantable quality on a product purchased within Australia. if Sony tell you to bugger off, which is highly likely, contact the appropriate Fair Trading Department in your original State, or contact the ACCC.
You are will probably have problems with some Games as well soon too, especially if you are playing online.
Good luck
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
Wrong.. very very very very wrong, and as an IP Attorney (highly improbable) you should know better, or at the very least go back and do basic tort/property/privity class again.
Even Sony admit you own the hardware
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110218181557455
There is an express warranty on hardware. NOT Licence! [And that whole motion from SCEA is an amazing read that totally contradicts their filings in Hotz.. oops]
The DCMA does not count towards the hardware at all, and is ONLY for software (intangibles) on EPROMS or ROMS not the actual ROMS themselves.
And remember the DCMA ONLY holds jurisdictiuonal relevance within the USofA Not elsewhere in the world where the PS3 is classified as good(s) and ONLY the PSN online system is classified as a service.
Re:
Rich is rooting around in Mike’s refrigerator? What a privacy violation!
I have BANNED SONY from my home, As everyone else should. A company that sell nothing, is nothing.
Make it happen, SONY is dieing, lets help put them out cold!
BOYCOTT SONY TO DEATH!
BOYCOTT SONY TO DEATH!
BOYCOTT SONY TO DEATH!
BOYCOTT SONY TO DEATH!
BOYCOTT SONY TO DEATH!
BOYCOTT SONY TO DEATH!
After the root kit BS I stopped buying anything made by Sony.
I always encourage others to do the same.
i want sony to win because...
Once they legally prove they OWN the hardware and you just “licensed/rented” it….the next time someone is injured using a PS Move or a PS3/laptop catches fire, Sony is going to get sued not only for massive damages, but is going to face some of the wonderful new corporate manslaughter charges we have……
It’s THEIR equipment your honor, so they’re responsible for its upkeep and safety…………………
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
When did this myth get started that you don’t own the software, as if software is magically unsellable? I think it stems from the confusing misnomer named IP. Also licenses do not just *apply*. As contracts they are something that must be agreed to. If you don’t agree then there is no license in place. You are still in possession of the software so by process of elimination you own it.
The only thing left for Sony to argue is copyright infringement. Cracking security by itself is not infringement nor a DMCA violation. So tell me, where is the violation? Oh, and don’t forget about possible fair use defenses.
Ambigiousness is bad, m'kay?
Thank You!
In summary:
If you don’t press X to agree, you definitely own it (the software, your ownership of the hardware is not in dispute).
If you do press X, you might be transferring your ownership to Sony, depending on the validity of the EULA which in turn could depend on where you live; there are many places where the EULA is known to be invalid. It may also depend on the price of your lawyer and the corruption level of your court.
If you somehow manage to use the software without pressing X, bypassing the EULA, you still own it. Best scenario in my opinion.