Rep. Jackie Speier Puts Forth Bill To Extend TSA To Mass Transit
from the because-that's-exactly-what-we-need dept
Well this is very disappointing. My own Congressional Representative, has put forth a bill, HR 3140 to expand TSA info sharing capabilities to mass transit. Because that’s just what we need. Even worse, in speaking about it, Speier doesn’t seem to even recognize that there’s a problem with the TSA at airports, and seems to assume that it’s just obvious that everything’s great with airport security:
“We have put in place through TSA a very elaborate system [in airports]. We all go through those metal detectors and those secondary searches. And we’ve put a lot of focus on the airlines for good reason. But we have neglected the mass transit components, generally speaking,” she said.
Speier said 2 million people fly each day, compared with more than 5 million who ride the subway each day in New York City alone. She pointed out that the most recent terrorist attacks have been on mass transit. Also, when U.S. Special Forces raided Osama Bin Laden’s compound last year, intelligence gathered revealed the next attack was intended for mass transit.
“The writing is on the wall. We need to be better prepared than we are right now,” Speier said.
I’m all for keeping trains safe from terrorists. I ride on trains all the time — including a Caltrain that has been named after Jackie Speier (I’m not joking). But any approach that suggests the current TSA efforts are somehow reasonable and should be expanded — without even offering any evidence that this is true — is a serious mistake.
Filed Under: caltrain, jackie speier, mass transit, security, tsa
Comments on “Rep. Jackie Speier Puts Forth Bill To Extend TSA To Mass Transit”
Hasn’t the TSA failed every test?
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We can not reveal that information because it involves national security. Sure you may have heard about us failing tests but like secrets and stuff, everything is fine though trust us.
I miss my America.
Anybody remember when American was “the land of the free?” Me neither…
On the other hand, if Dilbert comics are to be believed–hot girls get horny for intellectual geeks when they live in some sort of fascist dystopia.
If the hot girls thing works out, I suppose I won’t complain too loudly.
Otherwise, I’m effing leaving this bullshit country.
Re: I miss my America.
Yeah, getting the hot girls wouldn’t be a bad thing… but save me a spot once things REALLY take a turn for the worst.
Re: Re: I miss my America.
Romania is full of hot girls, and they were pretty desperate to get out from under a (communist) dictatorship. So hot girls good, hot freedom better!
Re: Re:Anybody remember when American was "the land of the free?"
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Re: I miss my America.
I’ve been looking into New Zealand or Australia. I understand that they’ve been looking for techno-geeks. I hate to leave a sinking ship, but I didn’t sign up for fascism.
Re: Re: I miss my America.
You are not safe from the U.S. or U.K laws in New Zealand, just ask Kim dotcom.lol
Re: Re: Re: I miss my America.
Dunno about that… New Zealand’s courts just declared the Megaupload raid illegal. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/06/28/dotcom_seizures_illegal/
‘lol’, as you say.
Re: Re: Re:2 I miss my America.
Too bad they band width seems to be so limited in Australia. They pay through the nose for what would be bad internet speeds in the US. And US speeds are fairly lame on the world stage.
Re: I miss my America.
For what?
I dunno what other country is better than the U.S. for anything.
And, yes, as bad as things are here, they are ALWAYS worse in other countries.
At least we let immigrants in.
Re: Re: I miss my America.
Hm, I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Scandinavian countries seem to have their stuff together much better than we do. There are some downsides, but overall quality of life for citizens is much higher.
Re: Re: Re: I miss my America.
What downsides? Hot girls and hot freedom! Ok, the winters probably bite if you come from the US South…
Re: I miss my America.
At last it makes sense … the pointy headed bosses are now running EVERYTHING!
Has this representative been following the news and the complaints against the TSA? She is a very ignorant woman. If I’m riding a bus or a train and they try to grope me, I’ll smack the dogshit out of the TSA agent.
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No you wont.
Airplanes/airports were because “of the terrorists”. How many terrorists attack have there been on mass transit? None?
Oh I know. The FBI will foil another of their own terror plots to justify this move. Now I get it!
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I heard the terrorists were planning on running a train into the White House. Say all you want about how it won’t happen… but what if it did?
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No we spent 50 million on magic mulch last year that keeps trains from hitting the White House. Worth every penny to because as you know, no trains have hit the white house.
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Not that I am in any way trying to justify Speier’s lunacy, but apparently you haven’t heard of the attacks of 7 July 2005 on London mass transit. Look it up.
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Last time I checked, London wasn’t in the USA.
Going to google this right now…
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I think he’s pointing out that mass transit is by definition insecure.
Case in point: Kabul and Baghdad. Even there the TSA would be utterly useless.
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In t hat case, let’s make sure the TSA bans cars. There’s been so many terrorist attacks using cars in foreign countries, can’t allow that!
Sure the TSA hasn’t stopped a single terrorist from getting aboard an airplane, but if we just expand it to cover mass transit we’ll EVENTUALLY get one by golly!
Overreacting?
I know…i know…slippery slope and all, but isn’t this just talking about local mass transit authorities getting more information from the TSA?
From TFA: “Speier said the bill would increase information sharing at “fusion centers” between TSA and local law enforcement and emergency management officials….Transit riders probably won’t see more TSA agents in subways or bus stops, though, Speier said. The expanded TSA role falls more on analysts, she said.”
As much as i’d like to see the TSA scrubbed entirely, and despite the newspeakishness of “fusion centers” I’m not freaking out over this.
Re: Overreacting?
More fool you.
Re: Overreacting?
I know…i know…slippery slope and all, but isn’t this just talking about local mass transit authorities getting more information from the TSA?
Great, so being on the no-fly list means you cannot ride the bus or train either.
Instead of the TSA telling me directly that I cannot ride the BART, the BART security will just shoot me because I am on the no-fly list. Sounds fair to me.
Re: Re: Overreacting?
Ok…that’s still a kind of putting the cart before the horse worst case scenario, but I find it to be pretty compelling. It’s a more plausible slippery slope than the one that first popped into my mind.
Re: Re: Re: Overreacting?
Ok…that’s still a kind of putting the cart before the horse worst case scenario, but I find it to be pretty compelling. It’s a more plausible slippery slope than the one that first popped into my mind.
Overreacting…it is just one of the many services I provide.
Actually, I doubt it will do anything, because most of the TSA folks are just too lazy to actually do anything with it unless Congress mandates it. I suspect they will just send an email out to all the local police stations saying “the information we provide is here, feel free to do what you want with it.” It might actually make things easier for the rest of us though, since it will be a lot easier to find a leak of the data to see if you are actually on the no-fly-list because right now, you don’t really have any way to do so other than show up at the airport and be denied access to the plane.
Re: Re: Re: Overreacting?
Everything about the TSA is the worst case scenario.
Re: Overreacting?
Maybe this will help you see it:
Transit riders probably won’t see more TSA agents in subways or bus stops, though, Speier said. The expanded TSA role falls more on analysts.
Probably means definitely will in this case.
Re: Overreacting?
The expanded TSA role falls more on analysts, she said.
Really, You’re hanging your hat on THIS? Because the TSA has been so much better at analysis? The same TSA that overreacts to everything.. that TSA?
Re: Overreacting?
“Fusion Centers”… makes me think of “Mr. Fusion” on the Delorean: fill it full of garbage, and it gives you power! Gigawatts! Do you think that’s why they called it that?
Re: Re: Overreacting?
fill it full of garbage, and it gives you power! Gigawatts!
Well, at least it doesn’t give you jiggawatts worth of power. My flux capacitor needs jiggawatts, not gigawatts.
I thought everyone by this point (including their old boss) knew that the TSA was worse than useless, and all it did was let terrorists know how are ‘security’ works and violated are freedom…why would we want this expanded to anywhere when it should be going the other direction and shut down?
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“why would we want this expanded”
Because someone’s buddy/family makes money if we do, don’t you know anything about how politics works?
These people make me sick to my stomach. You cannot be free if you will not be brave.
How long will the commute be then?
If you think there are long lines at airports with only serving 2 million people per day, just wait to see the lines at the NY subway serving 5 million per day. Can’t wait to see the size of the staff and screening areas then. Soon we will have half the people in the US searching the other half. But as the saying goes, who is watching the watchers?
Re: How long will the commute be then?
ARTHUR: Then who is watching the watchers?
WOMAN: We don’t have watcher watchers.
ARTHUR: What?
DENNIS: I told you. We’re a despotic commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of watcher for the week.
ARTHUR: Yes.
DENNIS: But all the watchings of that watcher have to be watched at a special biweekly meeting.
ARTHUR: Yes, I see.
DENNIS: By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,–
ARTHUR: Be quiet!
DENNIS: –but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more–
ARTHUR: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
WOMAN: Order, eh — who does he think he is?
ARTHUR: I am your representative!
WOMAN: Well, I didn’t vote for you.
ARTHUR: You don’t vote for representatives.
WOMAN: Well, ‘ow did you become king then?
ARTHUR: The Lady of the Rich, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft lots of money from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Arthur, was to vote for their interests, public be damned. That is why I am your representative!
Re: Re: How long will the commute be then?
DENNIS: Listen. Rich politicians lying in office while taxing the poor for most if not all of their money is no basis for a system of free government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical “vote for me, I’m the best candidate” ceremony that is really decided by who already has accumulated the most wealth and power.
ARTHUR: Be quiet!
DENNIS: You can’t expect to wield supreme power just ’cause some rich conglomerate of individuals and companies bought a political office for you!
ARTHUR: [grabs Dennis by the no-no area] Shut up! Will you shut up?!
DENNIS: Ah, now we see the sexual assault tolerated by the system!
ARTHUR: [has TSA screener fondle Dennis] Shut up!
DENNIS: Oh! Come and see the sexual assault tolerated by the system! Help, help, I’m being molested!
ARTHUR: Bloody educated voter with no money for political campaign bribes… I mean “donations”!
DENNIS: Ooh, what a giveaway!
Re: How long will the commute be then?
I’d like to see ’em try it in London.. A recent documentary series showed the world how the London Underground is just about at the breaking point. Sometime they even close the entire station because it’s packed with people waiting to get on the trains which are running every few minutes. So riders have to queue up on the pavement to get into the station so they can queue up to board the trains. Now add a few metal detectors! And New York isn’t much better. Just rougher.
I can see where she is heading with this one...
She is trying to get a subway trains and/or buses named after her too, but in reality the riders at the subway and bus stations will be telling each other about how they got roughly inspected by TSA, and forever refer to it as the “Jackie Speier”.
Why not start with school busses?
After all, the pedophiles and child rapists who work for the TSA would probably be most happy to get their hands on as many helpless children as possible, whether it’s to make some child pornography or, better yet, turn them into a sex slave. More mundanely, maybe they’ll just steal their electonics or steal their electronics (different case) or steal their electronics (yet another case).
Besides, nothing better than training children early that they should meekly submit to fascists and fondlers.
Re: We need TSA to protect Taxi Cabs
Think of the children!
They get into taxi cabs without any TSA agents patting them down to make sure they are not terrorists.
TSA protection can be extended to other forms of transportation such as skateboards and bicycles.
Re: Re: We need TSA to protect Taxi Cabs
I have to say that the last part of that amused me a bit too much.
This about intel sharing, jesus christ is it that difficult to be accurate or is the attempt to just scare people?
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If it was just about info sharing, why the reference to metal detectors? Let them try to install metal detectors on every El stop in Chicago. People don’t even know how to use the damned CTA passes, but metal detectors with everyone pulling their coins/keys out of their pockets would do wonders to make sure my commute is as long as fucking possible….
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It would be about a week before a metal detector gets stolen from a green line station. What would someone do with a metal detector, idk? But it would be gone.
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|It would be about a week before a metal detector gets stolen from a green line station. What would someone do with a metal detector, idk? But it would be gone.
Sell it at the scrap yard for $10 and purchase a 40oz.
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“It would be about a week before a metal detector gets stolen from a green line station.”
BWHWHAHAHAHAHAH!
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Some dude stole a multi-parameter probe we had placed for water quality monitoring. The probe is valued at 80k a new piece but he won’t get more than a few bucks for the scraps.
It would be a nice decoration item though. And not every1 can say they can go through metal detectors in their room everyday..
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I’m picturing a drug dealer on the east side with a little extra security for his clients.
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What would someone do with a metal detector, idk?
Set it up at the door to their crackhouse to make sure nobody armed comes in?
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And with intel sharing, the TSA will go to Congress and ask for more money to ‘do their job or the terrorists win’. The TSA is a drag on the economy.
Complete waste of time for other, ground based mass transit. At least with airplanes, the vehicle itself is away from everyone else and can’t be “targetted” by anyone not on the plane. It’s of dubious use on airplanes, but at least passengers and things actually on the vehicle are the main threat.
For buses/trains, you’d have to “harden” or secure the entire ground system. All tracks, all roads, all intersections, all bridges. Otherwise, it’s trivial to hit the vehicle w/o getting on it and passing security. It’s entirely impractical and futile.
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Shh!!
Don’t give them any ideas. The Immigration and Agriculture checkpoints already delay my trips long enough. We don’t need more of them!!!
And like you said, for ground transportation, the terrorist doesn’t even have to be ON the vehicle. They can just find an exposed area and plant an IED there. When the train/bus/whatever runs by…BOOM!! Nothing the groping TSA agents could have stopped.
Oh, wait…the terrorists are all “suicide bombers” they don’t know how to plant explosives and walk away.
That should be enough to get me on some “watch lists” now. Let the groping begin!!!
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That. I’m just laughing over Americans having cavity searches to board a bus. Sad. But hilarious.
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We can’t have an individual guard for every car parked in the train yard at all times? We can’t have a line-of-sight chain down every inch of railroad track? I thought we needed more jobs in this country.
obligatory
terrorists stopped: zero.
terrorists’ weapons confiscated: zero.
privacy/rights violations: countless.
public list of the exact things that will get you caught: present.
cost to taxpayers: enumerated.
but of course we have to “protect” everyone, so I look forward to this bill’s unanimous approval in Congress.
If this passes, Mass Transit is dead dead dead
How does Mass Transit survive when the new mantra will be.
Please show up 1-2 hours before your bus/train is scheduled to leave.
This added travel time is ok for planes because you save so much time flying 500mph versus any means of travel.
this is extremely disturbing
The TSA is an organization founded on an opportunistic power-grab, operating with demonstrably ineffective and always dehumanizing procedures, and run by unqualified incompetents at best and blatant criminals on average. I’m not exaggerating and I’m not making up stories — if you haven’t read the news, just Google it.
So how can this “Representative” (as Orwellian as that term seems in this case) get away with suggesting we need to expand the TSA’s range, when we should’ve long since shut it down, arrested its current employees right up to the top level, and pursued criminal investigations against anyone who’s ever been involved with it?
where the hell do you guys get these total idiots from? did they at one time have a brain and were then indoctrinated into the ways of a political moron or were they like that anyway? i just find it so hard to imagine how anyone with some sense could dream this crap up! perhaps they just like/dont care what they have their name attached to
If China does it, why shouldn’t you guys?
Terrorists: Winning? Check.
This is just pathetic.
Has everyone forgotten “Dr. Strangelove”? We could all be blown to bits at any time by a “technical error.” Get over it.
Stop with the security already: it plays directly into the terrorists hands. They want to perpetuate a constant state of alarm, so that we spend our time and money “preparing” instead of living. Benjamin Franklin said, “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
I concur.
Osama Bin Laden dead for a year
But he is still terrorizing the US.
Wake Up U.S.
Re: Osama Bin Laden dead for a year
Sorry but I have to disagree with you, Bin Laden hasn’t terrorized us in years, we have our own government to thank for that.
Re: Re: Osama Bin Laden dead for a year
But it’s thanks to Osama that our government has taken it upon themselves to treat the entire fucking world (especially its own constituents) like terrorists. I think they should share the award here..
Re: Re: Osama Bin Laden dead for a year
Agreed. I have laughed at Bin Laden more times since 2001 than I have any inkling of fear about what he or his followers are up to.
I really wish I could say the same about my government.
Re: Re: Re: Osama Bin Laden dead for a year
Jokes featuring terrorists are damn funny.
Jeff Dunham – Achmed the Dead Terrorist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwOL4rB-go
TSA groping you is not. But I have to concede TSA jokes tend to be even funnier ;D
Re: Osama Bin Laden dead for a year
No – you are letting your own fears terrorize yourselves.
Not happening in NYC
While you sometimes see the NYPD at the entrances to Subway stations, they don’t ask everyone to open their bags (they aren’t allowed to open them themselves). They simply can’t scan everyone. New York’s Subway system – and even the PATH system that connects it to NJ – was built over 100 years ago. It’s crowded, busy, chaotic, and fast. The entire system is designed to get people in and out as quickly as possible. Installing anything that will slow the system down will be met with contempt by a group of people aren’t known for their happy-go-lucky personality. Anyone caught walking slowly on the sidewalk is bound to get the finger and cursed at. Cursing at and giving the bird to people is a requirement to be called a New Yorker.
So, while I can see information sharing being valuable, they (most likely) share it already since there are three major airports in the area and, besides DC, was the only place to actually be attacked by terrorists in the US. Moreover, the system can’t and won’t support that kind of disruption. Installing metal detectors in the Subway and asking people to form an orderly line to wait for screening isn’t possible.
I can’t comment on the other mass transit systems but I know for sure that it won’t work in NYC.
Jackie Speier is a progressive, progressives have no other agenda but to control your life in all aspects.
Because of a tax(fine) SCOTUS has put another dagger into the heart of liberty.
This is the progressive goal. the total destruction of liberty.
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*rolls eyes* A little off topic are we?
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Yeah, she’s an idiot, but we don’t need your moronic, anti-patriotic drivel trying to get us to choose sides. Or shall we examine the nonsensical positions of conservatives, trying to balance the budget in the middle of a recession and bitching about raising taxes on the rich to a fraction of what they were in the 1970’s?
I would suggest that she likes the free body cavity searches Provided by the TSA, (probably the only attention she gets). So she thought more people would enjoy it too.
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I would suggest that she likes the free body cavity searches Provided by the TSA, (probably the only attention she gets). So she thought more people would enjoy it too.
She is in Congress. I don’t believe she is subject to the free body cavity searches the rest of us get.
Just saying...
“…and seems to assume that it’s just obvious that everything’s great with airport security…”
“But any approach that suggests the current TSA efforts are somehow reasonable and should be expanded — without even offering any evidence that this is true — is a serious mistake.”
It seems like you’re doing the exact same thing in the other direction. You assume it’s obvious that everything is terrible with airport security, without offering any evidence that this is true. I have no opinion, much less factual evidence, as to whether the job they’re doing is great or terrible. But this criticism is just a hypocritical waste of internet space.
Well, except for the Holy Grail reference in the comments, which was really quite good.
Re: Just saying...
If the TSA’s increased “security” measure is merely a deterent and not effective in actually catching anyone,as shown in multiple reports where they fail to catch the majority of their own testers, then it is already far too much and massively failing it’s primary goal which is to actively secure, not just deter threats by it’s presence. Factually, they have suggested arriving HOURS before you flight for security check points, which have not been shown to be effective. It is not logical to keep up these standards without evidence showing any benefit, much less minor benefit. At this point it is almost superstitious to have the TSA doing what it does now. I’ve never been in a plane crash while I have a goldfish in my mouth, obviously that works at keeping terrorists away.
Slowing Mass Transit
Wow this will only slow mass transit even more and create additional tax burdens on all of us. I say nay!
Pretty soon, they’ll be right on your front doorstep.
Before expanding it to mass transit, lets expand it to Congress.
I want them to face the indignities they impose on citizens.
When you think about it, Congress would make a huge terrorist target. They could wipe out our leadership with a dirty bomb smuggled in.
So I think that Congress critters need to line up to see if their names are on a secret list, and be “randomly” assigned to pornoscanners, metal detectors, and groping. There will be no flashing your ID and expecting a free pass to avoid this. They will be unable to bring in their own travel mugs, outside food and drink, and everything else.
I’m sure they would have no problems with this plan at all, otherwise we might have to call them soft on terrorism… or point out how this giant fucking boondoggle has been a waste of time and money and should be shut down.
The question is how many Congresscritters balls being felt up will it take to get us there.
Truly a disturbing thing to be promoting in a Free Nation.Might as well just Vote on Martial Law.This type of News means true Police State stuff.
Agents watch you get on subways, busses, planes, and trains.Next up will be Highways and Cars, ETC.
Then it will be just leaving you home and walking.
I find it very disturbing that someone would actually have the gall to promote this in our Government.
I don’t know why you’re all against this, do you all have something to hide?
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Yes, I need to hide my privates because honestly…they would make a hooker queasy.
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yes…my privacy…
on a side note. It is truly a shame that the commonwealths and republics of the country don’t have the strength to secede from the Union. Maybe if we go that way, only certain states will get affected…
Better yet, lets download all congresscritters, lobbyists, and tsa agents and make them play videogames for their survival…I’m sure someone here can come up with a good MCP.
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hahaha really?
How about we know the facts. Such as the TSA’s inability to actually find weapons and harmful substances in countless tests. Or the fact that you made up this pretend measure to appease the fear of unsuspecting mindless drone people so they’d feel safer, when in fact all you’re doing is contributing to the erosion of our freedom and privacy. I have nothing to hide, and breeze through airport security every time I travel throughout the year, yet that’s not the issue here. Feeling up little children for example. Yeah. because you know. That 3rd grader might be a terrorist.
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“I don’t know why you’re all against this, do you all have something to hide?”
This is a loaded question. If people were to resist being subjected to unwarranted search, in no way does that imply that they’re a potential threat with something to hide.
You view the public as a potential threat and treat them all like so many prisoners in their own country, just for wanting to travel somewhere. All that’s missing are iron bars, shackles and prisoner uniform.
Using your distorted logic, why not force society as a whole to submit to unwarranted search and seizure no matter where they go or what they do? After all, the “terrorists are out to get us” and there’s no telling where and when they’ll strike next.
What you people do is an absolute disgrace to our country and ancestry, an affront to our civil liberties and way of life. So long as you and your little Third Reich are let loose to feel up citizens and sift through all of their personal belongings, all of the soliders who lost their lives — supposedly for our freedoms — died for absolutely nothing. Bow your head is shame.
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“I don’t know why you’re all against this, do you all have something to hide?”
Nothing to hide.
I just don’t relish doubling my commute time.
the meaning of "we"
“We all go through those metal detectors and those secondary searches.”
Wait… no you don’t, Congressman.
Let me get this right....
2 hours commuting in Boston traffic or 4 hours of getting groped by George the TSA groper who is on parole for sexually abusing a Tasmanian fruit bat…I think I will be driving to work again…
AMAZING !!!!! OMG !!!.. the Transport Security Administration, is actually going to provide SECURITY for transport !!!!..
What next,, have the police arrest people ??
Priests bless people ?? Builder, building ??? Musicians musing ??
masnick you have the depth of a sheet of paper !!!
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What security are they actually providing?
Keeping us safe from cupcakes?
Keeping us safe by feeling up children?
Keeping us safe from our possessions by stealing them?
Keeping us safe by dealing drugs?
Keeping us safe by taking bribes for rides to the head of the line?
Keeping us safe from women with mastectomies?
Keeping us safe from baby formula?
Keeping us safe from human remains?
They provide no security proven by they top list of catches including soup, and their failure to find weapons real and test models.
In closing… go play in traffic troll…
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…terrified of cupcakes…they are watching and waiting…you’ll see…
The TSA has proven to be a boondoogle, absolutely great at wasting taxpayer money but hasn’t a bonafide terrorist to show for all that waste, in money and time the passengers have to go through with the security theater stage show.
Air travel is out as far as I am concerned. I believe in value for my money. Paying to be groped isn’t a value, it’s sexual harassment with the added indignity of having to pay in the form of increased ticket prices as well as a tax drain. I’ll never fly under those circumstances. I don’t wish anyone any harm but this is far over the top of what is acceptable.
I don’t always use mass transit,
but when I do, I prefer Dos Sackies
oh geez
TSA spreading it’s fine tradition of wasting money, disrespecting and stealing from citizens? Of course we should have it spread it’s claws into more of our infrastructure
thanks Mike. now, we finally know it’s YOUR fault we suffer at the hands (literally) of the TSA. Please. Since she’s YOUR representative (and thus does YOUR bidding), the collective masses of Techdirt readers implore you to reconsider and ask her to retract her endorsement of such nonsense!
Good idea!!!
Let’s also extend the TSA’s jurisdiction to grocery stores and book stores. I also am concerned about my neighbor. Can I please have a phone number to secretly turn them in too?
balls will be rustled all over the place