DOJ's Tone Deaf Criminal Charges Against Chinese Hackers Helps No One, Opens US Officials Up To Similar Charges
from the what-is-the-point? dept
We already wrote about the DOJ’s “ironic” decision to file criminal charges against Chinese hackers. Soon after that the actual indictment was released and it’s more or less what you’d expect. While the DOJ’s extremely smug announcement about the indictment made it sound like it would amaze the public, the reality is that it just describes some fairly standard spearfishing attempts to seek out information from some big American companies. It’s clearly illegal, but it really doesn’t seem that impressive, especially given everything that’s been revealed about the kind of attacks the NSA pulls off.
And, in fact, people are already pointing out that by firing the opening shot with criminal charges, the DOJ may be opening the floodgates against the NSA, FBI and others for similar charges in other countries. Obviously, China will almost certainly hit back with charges — possibly even trying to arrest some folks in that country. But the ridiculousness of the situation may also lead other countries to levy charges against specific individuals within US intelligence — thereby making life a lot more difficult for US intelligence officials in the near future.
So, the downside to this indictment seems fairly high. And for what upside? It’s difficult to see any real upside. The US is clearly never going to get its hands on the specific individuals named in the indictment. China certainly isn’t going to hand them over. And for all of the DOJ’s bluster about finally having “proof” of criminal activity, no one is that interested. Everyone already knew the People’s Liberation Army did this kind of hacking. Instead, the only real impact of this indictment seems to be the backlash, as people compare it to the lengths that US intelligence has gone to to spy on the rest of the world (including the Chinese).
In the end, the whole thing seems incredibly tone deaf on multiple levels. It calls more attention to questionable US activities, opens up US intelligence employees to criminal charges around the world, and does nothing to harm the Chinese. Doesn’t anyone at the DOJ think these things through?
Filed Under: china, doj, eric holder, hacking, indictment, nsa, surveillance
Comments on “DOJ's Tone Deaf Criminal Charges Against Chinese Hackers Helps No One, Opens US Officials Up To Similar Charges”
There's a saying for this...
Something about rocks and glass houses I believe.
Really, if they were trying to defend their own spying by pulling the ‘But he was doing it too!’, they really should have thought that one through a bit more.
‘Chinese hackers are engaged in industrial spying efforts’ might sound bad on it’s own, but compared to what the NSA has been doing, it’s not even remotely as damaging, and I imagine most will see this as nothing more than a desperate attempt to shift attention away from the USG sanctioned spying that it is.
Do you want International Incidents?
Because this is how you get International Incidents.
Incidentally, I wonder if the Chinese are going to indict Mike Rogers or Dianne Feinstein over this?
Re: Do you want International Incidents?
Only when they visit Beijing in the fall. They’ll have the trial in absentia, of course, but then the damage has already been done.
In addition, consider the possibilities of US soldiers currently in Afghanistan being indicted for stray shots, which, under this new legal paradigm, could be construed as assassination attempts.
Good job, NSA! Not only have you made the Internet less secure for everyone, you’ve made reality less secure for everyone.
With any luck maybe China will indict Eric Holder and company!
What I would love to see, is a dry admission they did spy and give a detailed list of the security flaws they used, with the special touch of including proof that all were created by the NSA.
That would be fun to watch.
DOJ = DOS(tupidity)
US intelligence agency should be trying gain information from foreign governments and foreign companies. The information is not necessarily needed for commercial advantage but for an understanding of a potential adversary’s technical capabilities. Indicting the Chinese agents, assuming they have their real names, only means the Chinese can do the same to US agents. Once indicted, the agent is fair game to be grabbed or extradited.
I am waiting with bated breath for the Chinese to file not only domestic [China} criminal charges but international arrest warrants and of course EU wide arrest warrants against the US officials on charge of [anything you can think up]. For good measures how about computer hacking against HSA officials, murder against Pentagon [drone strikes] et.
Re: Re:
Forgot to include:
Not trusting the info I went to the source, the FBI computer Most Wanted.
Not only did they file charges against Chinese Intelligence Officers but they also files charges against Pakistan and Latvia [most like Russian] Intelligence Officials.
Re: Re:
So that’s what they meant by “Snowden’s actions will endanger US citizens”…
Bush and Cheney already can not leave the US without fear of being served a subpena over War Crimes. Obama will join them as soon as he is out of office.
We have political criminals running our country. Criminals that have violated the Constitution in their efforts to gain ever more power. This is not to mention the violation of their oaths of office.
This is not going to be good. With their lack of foresight, China is subject to cash in all those government bonds they hold. Doing so would bankrupt the US officially as it already is unofficially.
I am not very proud of what my government is doing in my name. In fact, I’m ashamed of it. It is not the country I put my ass on the line for in the military. I don’t even recognize it from it’s actions as being the same country.
Re: Re:
You’d be surprised how much the whole “cashing in the government bonds” all at once would screw China over as well.
“Doesn’t anyone at the DOJ think these things through?”
But thinking is for criminals.
Let’s see if China starts to execute U.S. officials in China over this spying stuff…
That’d be interesting sight…
... Really?
The DoJ went full retard…
Never go full retard…
I doubt it.
It really mystifies me too...
The US keeps making a distinction between economic espionage (where the data is stolen from a company and given to another company) and “national interest” (where the data is stolen from a company and given to US trade negotiators instead). Its one that they believe in, but the rest of the world doesn’t.
And otherwise, the NSA has proven to be as agressive (if not moreso) then the Chinese. After all, the NSA doesn’t bother spearphishing once they started weaponizing the Internet backbone…
So how are any high-up officials in the intelligence community ever going to visit, say, Brazil, which now knows that Petrobras was hacked by the NSA to gain information to the US’s advantage? Or any DEA official in the Bahamas, now that its been revealed that the NSA, with DEA help, executed full-take of all cellphone calls?
I think the reason for it is willful ignorance. The one group most ignorant of the NSA’s activities is the US government itself: Because all the snowden slides are still classified, and reports often include the slides themselves, they are like a bunch of kids going “nah nah nah we aren’t listening”.
Thus as a result they make stupid decisions, like starting a “arrest for hacking” legal war with the rest of the world, and are going to be facing a world of grief once everyone else goes ‘hey, if the US does it to NATO allies, we can do it to them…”
Re: It really mystifies me too...
?With Spy Charges, U.S. Draws a Line That Few Others Recognize? by David Sangermay, New York Times, May 19, 2014
The District of Columbia ?inside the beltway? has it’s own particular brand of insanity. No one else can quite figure out a world where the economy is not a cornerstone of national security.
I mean, that one’s hard for folks on Wall Street to figure out.
Re: It really mystifies me too...
Well stated. I very much enjoy reading your musings here and on the Popehat.
Nigel
Here's why
We (the informed) are not the target audience for pronouncements like these. Your grannie, mother, party brother is. It’s really that simple.
The government has their headline which is about as far as any of the aformentioned will read. They will then go about their daily routine believing that we’re fighting the good fight against those chinese devils. And if they strike up a conversation with someone somewhere it may come up, and both participants can nod sagely about how those Chinese are stealing all our secrets but everything is now jake because Holder has their number and you don’t mess with the US.
The whole thing is nothing more than theatrical a dog and pony show, and while it may seem tone-deaf to those in the know, it is actually working as designed and intended.
So the next time you interact with one of your clueless parents, family members, or gym acquaitenances, just stop and think for a minute about how manipulated and ignorant they truly are, then realize that the government has them right where they want them with headlines like these. It’s an eye opening experience.
Re: Here's why
Well said; I agree. For lack of a “Sad but True” button, I gave you an “Insightful” vote.
Re: Here's why
?Why Did the US Indict PLA Officers for Hacking, Economic Espionage??, by Ankit Panda, The Diplomat, May 21, 2014
Almost every observer agrees that indictment is meant, as prosecutors do so often like to say, ?to send a message.?
Observers disagree on whom exactly the message is meant for. Many recent articles have taken the intended recipients to be the Chinese government. The idea that the message is meant primarily for domestic consumption is a minority view, but does have respectable subscription.
Almost no one believes the message was intended for, say, European consumption.
Re: Re: Here's why
“Almost no one believes the message was intended for, say, European consumption.”
Wrong. There are many target audiences of this propaganda campaign, whose timing might suggest an attempt to divert attention away from the US government’s illegal spying on “our” European allies, in this case by creating an even worse villain .. or at least trying to.
Next up, expect some new charges to emerge about spying/hacking by Russia. … Or maybe even India … or whichever country needs to be branded as a bad guy at the time. Anything to desperately divert attention away from the NSA’s own spying as part of their pathetic “Hey, look over there!” defense strategy.
Re: Re: Re: Here's why
Oh? Would you please point me to stories in the German-language press that conclude, in substance, ?The Obama administration’s indictment of the Chinese state hackers is primarily intended to send an emphatic message to the French.?
I’d be curious about any stories like that. ? Intensely curious.
The only real answer
We have a serious problem. The US has an open door to the rest of the world. This door is bi-directional; we can look out, but they can look in also. I guess the only real answer to this dilemma is to shut down all external internet links and close off our own internet to prevent spying and corruption. Now, where have I heard that before, I wonder???
Just wait until they find those router hackers...
The people depicted opening Cisco Router boxes to modify the equipment with a back door will probably be identified soon enough. The pics are probably in a publisher’s safe or files and I doubt they’ll be in a maximum security vault. It’s just a matter of time before those people are found and “brought to justice” by the Chinese, along with the people they work for.
What would Clapper do if a Chinese strike team showed up at his door, bagged him, and got him off shore to the Chinese mainland.
The US has opened the door to all sorts of Tom Clancy styled story lines here. Some may actually happen.
Time for popcorn.
To my thinking it’s simply the DOJ whining ‘cos China has better hackers than the NSA …
the real reason
Isn’t it an amazing coincidence that the US DoJ filed these criminal charges only days after news broke about China’s major trade agreement with Russia? (Well, probably no coincidence at all.)
Because of the US pressuring EU countries into cutting off trade to Russia, Russia’s only way out was to create a trading block with China, and there’s no doubt that China knew Russia’s desperation and drove a hard bargain.
Because China thumbed its nose at US strategic interests and instead took advantage of the US-engineered trade war that had Russia boxed into a corner, China had to get a spanking. But since the real reason for China’s spanking — trade with Russia — is hard to justify, another reason had to be found.
So then it becomes time to dredge up years-old accusations, dust them off, spit-polish them, and serve them up as something new. Chinese hacking accusations were the ideal choice because they serve as a shield to blunt the sting of international anger against the NSA’s own egregious behavior.
Don’t worry, once net neutrality is killed all foreign hackers traffic will be too slow to be effective…
you expect intelligence from eric holder ?
fools
“Obviously, China will almost certainly hit back with charges — possibly even trying to arrest some folks in that country.”
And they claim that Snowden endangered the lives and operations of US personnel working to keep the nation secure? WTF, are you thinking DOJ?
hey, come on. the nsa is just applying the chief tenet and watchword of this era: it’s ok if i do it.
State department daily press briefing
United States Department of State: Daily Press Briefing, May 19, 2014
Re: State department daily press briefing
United States Department of State: Daily Press Briefing, May 20, 2014
Fodder for the Truth-Free News Networks
The “Upside” for the SpyGuys is simple.
While almost nothing about what the American Spy Networks are doing to other countries is ever reported on TV, the news that the US is laying charges against Chinese hackers will be aired on every channel repeatedly for weeks.
The general US citizen will then see the NSA as the good guys catching Chinese bad guys, just the way the TV Spy shows have always depicted them. Most Americans still get their NEWS from TV.
Its a propaganda win for the US Spy Teams.