Can Concert Promoters Become The New Record Labels?

from the time-to-find-out dept

A little over a year ago, the recording industry was surprised to learn that Madonna wasn't signing a new record label contract, but instead was signing a deal with Live Nation, a big concert promoter, to handle pretty much everything having to do with her business, including releasing new CDs. The WSJ Magazine is running a long feature story about Live Nation, its founder and its ongoing strategy, wondering if it's the new business model for the recording industry. Basically, the guy behind Live Nation knows that there's good money in concert promoting, but that the margins are low. So, he's betting on a few of these "360 deals" where he gets a much larger margin on all other aspects of the business.

It's an interesting strategy that appears to be a step in the right direction, but it's unclear if it really is the future of the industry. Live Nation's strategy seems pretty risky. It involves huge upfront payments for a small number of star performers (whose older, more well-known, music is still under the copyright of earlier labels). It also doesn't seem to do much to embrace new technologies and distribution methods. Instead, it's just this guy making a grab for some big names, and trying to consolidate all their sources of revenue, taking a cut of each one. There's something to be said for that, but it would probably work better in combination with newer technologies and music distribution means -- and without those huge upfront costs that may sink the whole operation.
Hide this

Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.

Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.

While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.

–The Techdirt Team

Filed Under: 360 deals, business models, concert promotions, concerts, madonna
Companies: live nation

Reader Comments

Subscribe: RSS

View by: Thread

  1. identicon
    Penemue, 10 Dec 2008 @ 6:47am

    I figure I'll let LiveNation collapse under the weight of big names who can't pull their own massive girth (read: reputation/baggage), and wait for someone else to start recruiting small acts in droves.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  2. identicon
    Gimpydwarf, 10 Dec 2008 @ 7:55am

    The new way...

    It's easy to see the plan. If her fans want a real copy of her CD they will have to go to her concert. Otherwise, you can download a few songs from online, but you don't get the case and liner notes etc. It's a great way for a fading star to get people to her concerts.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  3. identicon
    Madina, 10 Dec 2008 @ 8:22am

    Digital era

    Should be interesting to see how this plan will work out for Madonna, U2, Jay-Z and Shakira.

    While music businesses have been dogged by the illegal downloading, middle- man, distributors, expensive marketing and etc, Live Nation takes it to another level for big names like these to make more money than selling CDs which top artist could sell maximum 5 million copies worldwide if they got lucky.

    Plus, digital makes the music accessible through iTunes, Amazon,, Napster and etc because it is cheap, fast and reliable.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  4. identicon
    Queen of Pop, 10 Dec 2008 @ 8:35am

    Madonna is smart..

    Madonna is one smart woman.

    Major record labels and retail chains stores have become too greedy by charging $18-19 for a CD that usually doesn't have more than 3 good songs on it. The record labels pay millions of dollars a year to middlemen (independent radio promoters)

    At the end who pays for all of the cost? The artist. Most record companies recoup their costs for promotion/advertising from the artist's CD royalties.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  5. identicon
    AnonCow, 10 Dec 2008 @ 10:32am

    Once again, the music industry fails to realize that back catalog is the low risk, high return business they should be in...

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  6. identicon
    Anon2, 10 Dec 2008 @ 12:46pm

    Don't assume anything

    I'm not sure, Mike, how you can comment on the company's approach to new technologies and distribution models based on this article, or any of the other articles that have been written about Live Nation over the past months or year. Based simply on the team Rapino has assembled and some of the pieces he's now got in place, and with no real inside knowledge of their business plan, I am still quite certain that he's already putting resources into those areas, and that they are very much part of the company's ever-evolving business model. Rapino is not at all one to sit idly by and just work the old system, and the people he's hired are all known to be innovators and break-the-mold types. Just because he is not explicitly talking about the things that interest you the most with respect to the music business does not at all mean that he and his people are not spending loads of time thinking about and deploying resources to work on them.

    The concept of 360 deals is one that will require a lot of time to fully test, and it has its share of intelligent and informed critics. But as with so many other "innovations" in this industry, it's not really all that new; there have been grassroots players doing such deals in different ways for the past decade or so, even if they didn't slap a label on them or structure them precisely the way they are now being structured. It's worked for some, and been a failure for others, and the smart ones are learning from both successes and failures. But instead of just jumping on the 360 bandwagon when the major labels started to tout it a few years ago, Rapino watched closely, acquired some of the necessary pieces and built out others internally, pulled in some of the smarter people who were innovating in one way or another, and picked up a company or two that were actually already providing full-service (or nearly full-service) deals to those artists within their worlds who were interested in doing them (and offering a la carte services to those who weren't).

    I've been in pretty antagonistic positions with Live Nation when it was still part of ClearChannel, and with some of the other giants who dominate or dominated the landscape. And while a few have been using the terms "artist-friendly" and "artist development" for a long time, most weren't even close. Once CC spun off Live Nation, though, and Rapino had some time to reorganize the company and make some personnel changes, it began to transform itself in some pretty positive ways. It's got a long roe to hoe, but it is pretty much top to bottom already a very different company than it used to be, and even at the club level, the dinosaurs are being replaced by younger, more energetic and creative people who truly are devoted to artist development and to creating better experiences for the fans. Though it doesn't make the headlines or big stories, it is not at all just about the U2's and Madonna's of the world.

    We'll all just have to see whether this, or any of the other experiments with business models going on, are going to succeed or not. In this case, though, with the old model throwing off a 5% margin (and that required squeezing everyone and leaving nobody happy in the least), there can be nothing but upside or utter failure for Live Nation, because it's taking a bet-the-company risk by putting itself in a position where its success is going to be linked very closely with the success of the artists and the willingness of the fans to fork over their increasingly precious dough. I think you gotta admire Rapino for that, most execs in his position wouldn't dare even try to pull this off.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  7. identicon
    Environ.Aesthet., 11 Dec 2008 @ 12:45am

    New modes and forms of labels

    The Live Nation deal is an interesting one from what it attempts to accomplish by way of older artists but I agree with the author of this article in as much as the first label or company to develop a system for channeling new artists to the masses without relying on distribution will represent the true revolutionaries.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  8. identicon
    Terry Wilkinson, 11 Dec 2008 @ 12:09pm

    What are these artists thinking?

    The question remains. With dwindling music sales and fewer concert tickets being sold, why don't more artists start their own company to sell their music, merchandise, concerts, appearances, etc.? Wouldn't they make more money?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  9. identicon
    Tasha, 21 Jan 2009 @ 7:58pm

    my music

    hi, im Tasha im a 14 year old girl with dreams of becomiinga music artis i know that it is alot of hard work
    i just want the chance to jst prove my sklls..if you know anyone that would acctually want to lission to my music
    than i will be more than greatfull
    please email me back


    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  10. identicon
    Felicia McCaskill, 23 Feb 2009 @ 2:21pm

    Re: my music

    Hello Tasha

    I saw your posting on and I wanted to respond to your comment about becoming an Artist in the future. I'm not sure what type of music you are interested in singing, whether it be Gospel, R&B, Country etc... but I just wanted to encourage you to keep your dream alive and don't give up because anything is possible when you start with a strong foundation. I am the Vice President of Oasis Music, Inc. located in Columbus, OH. We are a christian independent record label and we would love to hear some of music. So with your parents approval you can send us some material to listen to. Our email addess is Be Blessed.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  11. identicon
    Terrell, 8 May 2010 @ 8:19pm

    need a promoter

    I love and enjoy siging and need a promoter. can you call me Terrell at 13106031199 and leave your number if not present when you call.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  12. identicon
    Viola, 9 Oct 2013 @ 11:15pm

    mobile distribution is key

    I would love an update on this--is the 360 deal approach that LiveNation pursued still working? Have they embraced new distribution channels that embrace mobile technology?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

Add Your Comment

Have a Techdirt Account? Sign in now. Want one? Register here

Subscribe to the Techdirt Daily newsletter

Comment Options:

  • Use markdown. Use plain text.
  • Remember name/email/url (set a cookie)


Add A Reply

Have a Techdirt Account? Sign in now. Want one? Register here

Subscribe to the Techdirt Daily newsletter

Comment Options:

  • Use markdown. Use plain text.
  • Remember name/email/url (set a cookie)

Follow Techdirt
Essential Reading
Techdirt Deals
Report this ad  |  Hide Techdirt ads
Techdirt Insider Chat

Warning: include(/home/beta6/deploy/itasca_20201215-3691-c395/includes/right_column/ failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /home/beta6/deploy/itasca_20201215-3691-c395/includes/right_column/ on line 8

Warning: include(): Failed opening '/home/beta6/deploy/itasca_20201215-3691-c395/includes/right_column/' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/share/pear:/home/beta6/deploy/itasca_20201215-3691-c395:/home/beta6/deploy/itasca_20201215-3691-c395/..') in /home/beta6/deploy/itasca_20201215-3691-c395/includes/right_column/ on line 8
Recent Stories

This site, like most other sites on the web, uses cookies. For more information, see our privacy policy. Got it

Email This

This feature is only available to registered users. Register or sign in to use it.