Why You Can't Have A Tacocopter Drone Deliver You A Taco For Lunch Today
Harry Potter And The Missing Middlemen: Where The Pottermore Store Goes Wrong

Hollywood Up And Comers Recognizing That The Big Gatekeepers May Be More Of A Threat Than Silicon Valley

Movie Industry

from the fighting-the-status-quo dept

Tue, Mar 27th 2012 11:43am -

Despite the MPAA’s insistence that it wants to “talk” to Silicon Valley, it still seems to think that just means getting together with Google’s lobbyists in Washington DC. Thankfully, the MPAA doesn’t really represent the full movie industry, and plenty of young filmmakers realize that the tech industry isn’t the enemy and has been providing tons of great tools and services that up-coming filmmakers rely on every day. Some of them are realizing that perhaps the real fight is between the legacy gatekeepers and the up-and-comers… and as such, the up-and-comers should have a much closer relationship with the tech industry.

Gina Hall is a young Hollywood filmmaker who reached out to me and some others in Silicon Valley to begin this discussion, recognizing that perhaps the MPAA’s claims don’t match up with her best interests:

I feel like the solutions proposed from Hollywood establishment just might be in favor of the status quo rather than helping up-and-comers. Call it a hunch. So while industry bosses are distracted with their fight to sustain the old business model, I figured it might be a good time to start a series of conversations between the tech sector and young Hollywood to make some sense of the seismic shift happening in the industry.

There are a few quotes from me in that article, in which she notes that it really does seem like the tech industry is coming up with all the cool stuff that actually helps young filmmakers today — from tools (like cheaper cameras) to services (like YouTube) to ways to monetize (like Kickstarter). Old Hollywood? Not so much:

Masnick’s M.O. is disruptive innovation — or as he describes it “how we get cool stuff.” Creating cool stuff — honestly, isn’t that what most of us get in the business to do? The problem is, Hollywood isn’t responsible for creating enough cool stuff these days (especially locally) to keep us all employed. A lot of the cool stuff is now coming from the tech sector with Hollywood standing idly by. In conversations with those employed with the studios, production companies and agencies around town, I’ve heard projects worked on self-described as “lame,” “derivative,” or the backhanded compliment: “Meh, at least it’ll make money.”

I’m looking forward to her continuing series, showing that the tech industry and young Hollywood are very much in alignment. The only real problem is with the legacy players in the business who are just looking to keep making money the way they used to, without actually changing with the market.

Filed Under: , , , , , , ,

112 CommentsLeave a Comment
If you liked this post, you may also be interested in...
Rate this comment as insightful
Rate this comment as funny
You have rated this comment as insightful
You have rated this comment as funny
Flag this comment as abusive/trolling/spam
You have flagged this comment
The first word has already been claimed
The last word has already been claimed
Insightful Lightbulb icon Funny Laughing icon Abusive/trolling/spam Flag icon Insightful badge Lightbulb icon Funny badge Laughing icon Comments icon

Comments on “Hollywood Up And Comers Recognizing That The Big Gatekeepers May Be More Of A Threat Than Silicon Valley”

Subscribe: RSS Leave a comment
112 Comments
Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

No, I insult him directly because the piece is an attempt to puff up his own ego, and not to say very much else.

The only Gina Hall I can find in IMDB is a misc crew member and producer of shorts, nothing else. The story lacks any background on the person, and when I go look at Huffpost, she is listed as “Writer, producer, film school survivor”, yet her twitter shows her as “Huffington contributors, film enthusiasts and always out and about on LA lifestyle scene.”. I am not seeing much here – and remember, almost anyone can write for Huffington, it seems, as long as you are willing to work for free.

It would be like Marcus claiming to use Mike’s vague ideas to propel his music career to new heights. Is that something you want to be proud of? Mike is proud of it, but fuck knows why.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

“The only Gina Hall I can find in IMDB is a misc crew member and producer of shorts, nothing else.”

That’s more credits than you, boy.
And even James Cameron began as a crew member on b-movies like “Galaxy of Terror” and “Battle Beyond the Stars”.
So what’s your point?

TtfnJohn (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Re:

Even at that. IMDB doesn’t list every film ever made, in fact is has a lot of holes in it.

Young Hollywood filmmakers have to start somewhere, you know, and like the rest of is it’s almost always on the bottom rung.

I don’t see snapping up going on here as much as the beginning of a long overdue rational discussion.

As both rational and discussion are not qualities you’ve shown around here I doubt you’re interested in either of both combined.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Re:

Right why can’t he find someone embedded in the system to talk about how they don’t like the system. Anyone looking at it with fresh eyes, seeing how things work and trying to make a go of it has NO RIGHT to talk about their opinion regarding how to make a go of it.

She only studied the process of making films for 4 years and is now actively trying to make films. What does she know about trying to make films?

Hephaestus (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Re:

Its actually fear you are sensing. If enough film makers run down this route Hollywood fails. In ten years, technology will make films like Avatar common place, on a shoe string budget no less. They will end the same way the record labels have, owning nothing more than the promotion part of the business. Truth be told, by then we will have figured out the promotion piece rendering them wholly obsolete.

Torg (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

Maybe you should’ve led with that. Makes others less likely to write you off as an idiot if you actually contribute something of substance. And this is of substance, as when googling her the most substantial thing I found was that someone with her name is often googled in conjunction with the word “murder”.

Her Twitter account links her to a guy called Scott Bridges, and he’s produced a few movies. One of them I’ve seen recommended before, though I didn’t care enough to watch it.

Anonymous Coward says:

Id like to keep my job

I’d like to keep working as a union grip, making $22.00+ an hour, with health benefits, able to support my family at a fair standard of living, like the other 350,000 or so professional film workers supported by this legacy industry. Any suggestions? Do you even understand where I’m coming from? And maybe some you self appointed experts on my job market would like to share how you make a living!

cosmicrat (profile) says:

Re: Re: Id like to keep my job

“Wait, I thought your industry supported over 2 million people? Methinks The Dodd will be visiting you soon.”

I forgot who first came up with the meme that “2.2 million people are supported by the film industry”, but I actually think I agree with it if you change the wording a little bit.

350,000 has been given as the number of people employed by the U.S. film industry. You could think of this as the number of workers who receive most or all of their year’s income from their work in the industry. Now think of the nursery that annually makes a quarter of their gross sales to the film greens department, the lumberyard that ships more truckloads out to the film construction department than anything else, the restaurant across from the backlot that fills up with film workers every lunchtime, all the people who derive a significant amount of their yearly income from the movie, but if the film business went away, they wouldn’t necessarily be busted, but would see a significant economic downturn.

You could say “2.2 million people derive a significant amount of their income from the film and TV industries”.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re: Id like to keep my job

>You could say “2.2 million people derive a significant amount of their income from the film and TV industries”.

No disagreement with that. Where the disagreement comes from, though, is that in the event the film industry decides to go belly-up (I say decides, because it’s fully within is functionality to cut these costs, fire the people involved or, shock horror, switch to a competitor – which would still “damage” the examples you listed but aren’t as a direct result of piracy) these derived industries will be irreparably screwed. I posted a parodic post on the subject once that I’ll repost here, since the MPAA has argued about the effects of piracy on corn farmers:

“People don’t realise that when they steal from Hollywood they steal from us honest corn farmers. When Hollywood refused to pay me with their increased revenue saying that they were ravaged by piracy I ended up with a surplus of corn that no one could use because it would have been used to make popcorn for theaters. There were no possible alternatives: cornflakes, cornmeal, or people who wanted to pop their own corn; my life was well and truly fucked by piracy.”

In fact – to use another response I had to a troll – the RIAA/MPAA’s point can be extended to this: if the industry they lobby and litigate for goes belly up, since everyone is exposed to culture, if we don’t constantly fund their campaign then it effectively means that civilisation grinds to a halt.

Karl (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Id like to keep my job

350,000 has been given as the number of people employed by the U.S. film industry. You could think of this as the number of workers who receive most or all of their year’s income from their work in the industry.

That number comes from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. That number includes all of the janitors, security guards, receptionists, waiters and waitresses, cashiers, riggers, ushers, couriers, etc. that earn their income from the motion picture industries, within the entire nation.

You’ll be interested to know that you’re one of the higher-paid workers in that industry. 50% of motion picture industry employees (176,170 people) earn less than $18.81 per hour.

I’m not entirely sure which occupational category your job falls into. But, “riggers” are in the category of “Installation, Maintenance, and Repair Occupations,” so I’m guessing it’s lumped in with that one. The industry employs only 1,460 people in that entire job category, nationwide.

Now, it’s true, “a $30,000 straight to Internet project” is probably not going to hire as many people as a $30 million blockbuster. On the other hand, there are going to be a thousand times as many of those “straight to Internet projects” as there will be $30 million blockbusters.

You said that blockbuster hires “hundreds of people” to do jobs like yours. If each of those thousand “straight to Internet” projects hires even one worker, that’s already a net gain of hundreds of jobs. I’m pretty sure they can at least hire 1500 people nationwide.

Besides, when Mike talks about “replacing” Hollywood, I don’t think he’s not talking about forcing Hollywood out of business. He’s talking about the younger filmmakers eventually taking over Hollywood, and adapting it to their way of thinking.

In any case, I’m pretty sure your job is as safe as ever. The yardstick of a film’s success (especially those $30 mil films) has always been ticket sales, and box office revenues have done nothing but increase in the past ten years.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Id like to keep my job

The yardstick of a film’s success (especially those $30 mil films) has always been ticket sales, and box office revenues have done nothing but increase in the past ten years.

On average a theatrical motion picture only makes 25% of its revenue from N. American box office. And much of the increase has been from higher ticket prices, not greater ticket sales.

Karl (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Id like to keep my job

On average a theatrical motion picture only makes 25% of its revenue from N. American box office.

How much is due to global box office revenues? Because those have been steadily increasing, as well. There’s also no indication that most other income streams (e.g. toy licensing) are on the decline.

Regardless, that’s not the point. Box office sales are perceived (for whatever reason) as the indicator of a film’s success; it is what determines whether more films of that nature are going to be produced. Higher box office scores mean more green-lit films, meaning more work.

And much of the increase has been from higher ticket prices, not greater ticket sales.

Who cares? Either way, people are spending more money going out to see films.

Cosmicrat says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Id like to keep my job

“Now, it’s true, “a $30,000 straight to Internet project” is probably not going to hire as many people as a $30 million blockbuster. On the other hand, there are going to be a thousand times as many of those “straight to Internet projects” as there will be $30 million blockbusters.”

Playing devils advocate here, but Is this what the world really needs? A thousand times more hours of low production value video? Who’s going to watch all that?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Id like to keep my job

I made a living by determining what a growing market was (computer engineering), finding a lucrative position I enjoyed (design work), training to get said position at a good company that seems to be growing, working my ass off making connections, paying dues in internships, etc…

If the market changes, no one, REPEAT NO ONE, owes me the same wage, benefits, or standard of living. I have to work to keep that, find an alternative, or start the process over again.

And yes, I understand where you’re coming from. Don’t feel so entitled to you current wage, or job. If the industry you’re in is sinking, it’s up to you to find a way to monetize your skills, connections, and talents. Not us. Best of luck.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Id like to keep my job

Perhaps if people were looting your industry at the scale of the motion and picture and tv industry, you’d be singing a different tune. I agree no one is entitled to anything….. except to have not people unlawfully and unjustly using their output for free.

Big Al says:

Re: Re: Re: Id like to keep my job

Never heard of software piracy?
How many software packages on your home PC are bought and paid for and how many are from a ‘friend’ (just install this, here’s the key/crack)?
We’ve had to adapt to this process and most of us have succeeded. If you can’t manage that then you may as well just give up now and go on welfare.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re: Id like to keep my job

Nope, I’ll never sing a different tune. I grew up on a farm. Farm stopped being profitable, so I started working as a carpenter and teaching at a vocational school. That all folded, so I became a mechanic. Saw that there wasn’t much work in that where I was, so I upped and moved to a spot where I could work retail and get a degree. I did that, got a job working in programming. When/if this fails, I’ll move on to the next thing that keeps food on the table and a roof over my family’s head.

I’ve been through failures of industry, both local (carpentry, mechanic) and national (farming tobacco’s dead now for a small farmer, vocational schools are closing left and right). Maybe if you weren’t so busy complaining about looting and complaining about how hard it is to protect yourself you could, you know, actually take a few of the opportunities available and make some money.

John Fenderson (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Id like to keep my job

His film making job is pretty secure

You know that, and I know that, but he doesn’t seem to agree — and the *AA members argue otherwise as well.

you however are one HIB visa away from the unemployment line.

Ahh, making it personal!

Well, first, the high tech industry has always been fluid, and people who are successful in it are ones who are flexible and are used to constantly training/retraining and looking for the next opportunity. In other words, we live in a world every day that the union grip fears. That’s why his statement sounds a lot like entitlement to many of us. Why is he demanding long-term stability in a world where it doesn’t exist? He should be rejoicing that he’s one of the privileged few and enjoying his run while it lasts.

Second, the visas you speak of aren’t actually causing notable job loss for the high tech industries in the US. What they do is change the nature of the jobs available, but there is, and always will be, plenty of work for people who don’t mind shifting gears every couple of years.

So none of us are “one HIB visa away from the unemployment line” unless we’re either bad at our jobs or too lazy to manage our careers. If that’s the case, being one step from the unemployment line still has nothing to do with the visas.

Cowardly Anonymous says:

Re: Id like to keep my job

Keep track of new up and coming groups, making sure to establish connections with them. This is something that should be done by workers in any industry, so that they are ready to jump ship if the stock holders/C*O’s decide that a quick hike in their earnings is worth torpedoing their company. Then, you can jump ship if it starts to sink.

Again, it has nothing to do with what industry your in and everything to do with not starving because all your eggs were in one basket and someone dropped it.

Hope for the best, sure, but better to be prepared for the worst too.

Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased) (profile) says:

Re: Id like to keep my job

I think everybody would like to keep their job…the forecast is that there will still be some jobs left in your line of work. Too bad being in the union doesn’t allow you to rise above the rest and become in higher demand (and higher pay) ensuring your continued (or improved) level of employ.

Regardless, has there been threatening from the studios that they are cutting workers/pay/benefits? Do they tell you it is piracy? Do they tell you that they are making more money now then they ever have before?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Id like to keep my job

They are also spending more money now than they ever have before. For all the talk of all the increases in entertainment expenses. People always forget to mention INFLATION. Are people spending a higher percentage of their income on entertainment now, or is the curve moving with inflation? Don’t take Mike’s pablum as the gospel truth.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Id like to keep my job

Thanks for contributing!

As a working stiff, I can understand your concerns and relate to your situation. The best advice I can give you is make sure that if the studio you works for fails, that you have a backup plan ready. Perhaps start looking into other studios that are more nimble and embrace the changes that are happening across the board to make sure that you are in a position where someone else’s failure to adapt isn’t directly related to your employment. I work in the financial industry and have had to jump ship a couple times already to avoid being swallowed by the greed and hubris of those that think they can do what is best for them at the expense of their employees and consumers.

The legacy studios are fighting an absurd battle that they cannot win. They think that the market should conform to their demands and that they can maintain their position of control, but this is not reality. SOPA/PIPA proved that the real stakeholders here are the public and we are simply fed up with their purchased legislation to prop up their failing business models.

The world is changing, and it is important that you change with it. Your employers would like to stick their heads in the sand and pretend that things will continue unabated, but anyone can see that their time is coming to an end. Anyone that works in your industry that doesn’t understand that significant change is on the horizon is being willfully ignorant. So again, the best advice I can give you is to start looking now for a position in your field that provides what you need to support your family and doesn’t present the same level of risk while you still have the luxury of time, and in all sincerity, best of luck!

Atkray (profile) says:

Re: Id like to keep my job

I?d like to keep my job as a certified master auto technician making $32 an hour with company paid health coverage. I?d like to take a couple vacations a year and save for retirement. Any suggestions??

The same technology customer?s love in their cars makes them exponentially more reliable so I don?t have the amount of work I used to have. If only we could go back to distributors, or even better, contact point ignition systems and carburetors. Those were the days.

But alas, I don?t have any lobbying groups to help me hold back progress and it seems that my crying and whining is being ignored. I guess I could just complain and wait for help but I have chosen another path.

Like the A/C above, I see a future in software engineering so I hauled my old butt back to school and am working on degrees and certifications so I can compete with others in this field.

Consequently, please take it personally when I tell you I don?t care about you or your industry, from my vantage point you are the ones with the entitlement syndrome. Your unwillingness to adapt and/or change is you own undoing. Even a toddler throwing a fit on the floor eventually figures out that it isn?t working and moves on, but not the ?entertainment? industry.

Yes, I understand all too well where you are coming from, as do many others, and because I understand I don?t care. The world does not owe you anything.

weneedhelp (profile) says:

Re: Id like to keep my job

“I’d like to keep working as a union grip, making $22.00”
Ha ha you are getting ripped off. 22/hr, in Phila area its more like 36. And do it on a Sunday that’s a holiday and its double time and a half. Rigging over 35′ brings in 350 for the in/out, 700 for the day.

You dont do concerts? Time to contact your local IATSE rep and diversify. Contact your local lighting/sound company as well. Contact the Teamsters and load/un-load trucks.

With the experience you have there are plenty of opportunities in other entertainment industries.

Being a member of the IATSE myself, I spent many days searching elsewhere to keep weeks full.

Because you are sooooo busy during Christmas time. /s

“And maybe some you self appointed experts on my job market would like to share how you make a living!”
Hope this helps.

cosmicrat (profile) says:

Re: Re: Id like to keep my job

“”I’d like to keep working as a union grip, making $22.00”
Ha ha you are getting ripped off. 22/hr, in Phila area its more like 36. And do it on a Sunday that’s a holiday and its double time and a half. Rigging over 35′ brings in 350 for the in/out, 700 for the day.

You dont do concerts? Time to contact your local IATSE rep and diversify. Contact your local lighting/sound company as well. Contact the Teamsters and load/un-load trucks.”

It sounds like you are a member of a mixed stagehand local that also covers movie work. In my city they are 2 separate locals, and I’m in both. I haven’t taken stagehand calls in a while though as I’ve been lucky enough to get movie/TV work. Working as a stagehand is kind of plan B for me.

$350.00 uprigging for an in!!!??? That’s like $87.00 an hour! I haven’t checked in a while but in my city upriggers get like $26.00 an hour with a four hour minimum and we usually get the in done in 4-6 hours and the out in under 4. Looking at $250-350 for the day. Yeah, rates have always been higher in the big cities, especially the old Northeastern ones. Kudos to you, but not everyone enjoys those kind of contracts.

Note to others reading this: we are discussing theatrical/arena work here, i.e. concerts and live shows. This does not relate to movie/TV work.

weneedhelp (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Id like to keep my job

“$350.00 uprigging for an in!!!???” – Over 35′ – It was a flat rate and depending on whats flying could take up to 6 hours.

“Kudos to you, but not everyone enjoys those kind of contracts.” – It was great when I was in my 20-30’s. I dont do it anymore. I do miss it though.

“This does not relate to movie/TV work.”
When movies come to Philadelphia the senior IATSE take those gigs. They are $100 hour+ gigs.

Being on both sides, I have a love hate relationship with it. While I loved making the money, I hated, and still do, seeing 50, 60, 100+ dollar ticket prices. But when you are paying 15-50 guys 36 an hour for around 4 hours, and another 5-10 for the all day. Another 15-50 guys with a min of 4 for the out. Local 8 to load the trucks, another 4 guys at around 400 ea for the day. It gets expensive.

So that guy was whining, but the reality is if he wanted to work hard there are plenty of opportunities out there that fit his skills.

Hell I didnt even mention local TV, radio.

Have a good one.

John Fenderson (profile) says:

Re: Id like to keep my job

I’d like to keep working as a union grip, making $22.00+ an hour, with health benefits, able to support my family at a fair standard of living, like the other 350,000 or so professional film workers supported by this legacy industry. Any suggestions?

As would we all. You have to do what the rest of us have to do: watch the landscape, keep your skills current, network, and keep your ear to the ground for better opportunities. They do & will exist, but maybe not in the places you’re used to looking.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Id like to keep my job

Suggestion for you…

As much as they try to coerce you, resist the urge to take their side. That is not to say make waves against them. Just be a silent JAFO as far as they are concerned. In the meantime quietly make friends and contacts with the new comers so that when the time comes and they sink their ship, you have a place to go.

(And yes that was a Blue Thunder reference.)

That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

Re: Id like to keep my job

So did autoworkers.
So did steelworkers.
So did (insert all kinds of other jobs here).

The truth is they had to adapt over time.

The large problem is your being told by the studios, as I am guessing your not full time on a specific studios lot (please correct me if I am wrong), that every download is the reason they are cutting back on things. The problem is no one has seemed to notice the people in the MPAA are making more, the CEOs are making more, everyone but the people on the bottom are making more. If they were actually as devastated as they would have you believe, shouldn’t they be bleeding money as well and worried about how to keep their 3 mansions in good repair?

Today there is the ability for them to sell their product world wide literally seconds after it is completed. They could make very good money doing this, but it is not the “GREAT” money they were making when it took time to get the product shipped around the world. They insist on holding content back from people with cash in hand, because some chart says they have to wait x months to make sure they get maximized profits. That chart worked, until making a copy of things was a button press away.

There is a flood of content out there everyday, not all of it is as good or polished and some is crap. With the attention span being pulled in various ways it is STUPID to think that people are going to wait to see the hot new movie. That in 6 months when it gets released in region 2 there will not be newer releases on their mind and they will only vaguely remember they wanted to see the old thing.

There are cost savings in the system now, due to technology. But rather than embrace them and adjust to the new “normal” they are wasting time and money trying to make the brave new future just like the old days.

CSS is broken, they still put it on every disc. They pay a fee to be part of the group that controls it. Where does that money end up? Many of the “losses” contributed to “pirates” are just new fees and steps in the chain added by your fearful leaders to make sure they have it “locked down” this time.

The world has evolved, and I’m sorry your scared of the change but you really need to look at the “leaders” of your industry pulling down millions to lobby for wholesale spying on people. If they sat down they could work out all of the global restrictions (they put in place in the first place) and get the product to the consumers faster and better. People no longer view DVDs are something to collect and treasure like they got people to do with VHS, people want to pay a couple bucks and watch the movie when they want it. We live in a world where we can have huge books printed on demand, but somehow we can’t get DVD’s printed on demand? Can’t or won’t… Pretty sure it is the latter.

Your work is valuable, but with the growing amount of cash flowing into your industry should demonstrate they are lying to you and just want you scared enough to give them control and take a little less… while they still sit in their mansions and take more.

DC (profile) says:

Re: Id like to keep my job

Nice that you are AC and won’t even pick a handle. /sarc

I do appreciate that you recognize it is a legacy industry. You are way ahead of the game. Windowed releases of movies does not mean a lack of jobs for production staff. Neither does recognizing that you can absolutely not stop infringement, even if you shut off the internet entirely.

Please get that previous point and deal with it. There was infringement before the internet.

1) Option 1: be indispensable at your job.
2) Option 2: Learn and get better in your field (promotion: cha-ching)
3) Option 3: learn a new profession. (This is what I have done four times)

Personally, I might very well lose my job in 3 months. I will have to figure out how to replace that job. I work based on the contribution my employer thinks I can make at first and later contributions I actually make. Sucks to be me (the rest of us).

Having worked always based on my contribution, I do not understand where any union apologist comes from.

For well over 50 years, the government has protected wage, benefit, and work rules, so unions mostly serve to exclude new employees and prevent promotion based on production. Check out the Oakland Dock Strikes in the last few years.

So no, I do not know where you are coming from. I am not an expert on your job market, but I would like it to look a lot more like mine.

cosmicrat (profile) says:

Re: Re: Id like to keep my job

“1) Option 1: be indispensable at your job.
2) Option 2: Learn and get better in your field (promotion: cha-ching)
3) Option 3: learn a new profession. (This is what I have done four times)”

It’s hard to be indispensable in such competitive business, but that’s what I strive to do, constantly! (As an aside: I draw the line at using information as power, as that is just another form of intellectual monopoly)

Constantly learning, constantly striving to get better. Promotions, a little. It’s pretty closed in. With so many highly qualified people it’s tough.

Yes we all may have to learn a new profession at times. Would rather not. Would prefer to advance in the one I’m in, but our economic system does not always give us the best choices does it.

Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: Id like to keep my job

I’d like to keep working as a union grip, making $22.00+ an hour, with health benefits, able to support my family at a fair standard of living, like the other 350,000 or so professional film workers supported by this legacy industry. Any suggestions? Do you even understand where I’m coming from? And maybe some you self appointed experts on my job market would like to share how you make a living!

Then you should be paying attention to what Gina is talking about. Because what they’re doing is figuring out new ways to finance movies, using tools like Kickstarter and Topspin, so they can afford to hire grips like you.

The Groove Tiger (profile) says:

Re: Id like to keep my job

“I’d like to keep working as a union grip, making $22.00+ an hour, with health benefits, able to support my family at a fair standard of living, like the other 350,000 or so professional film workers supported by this legacy industry.”

Well, I’m sure that if the movie making industry ever goes belly up, you’ll be able to find another work gripping something else. Just like if tomorrow the car industry went belly up, all those welders would find jobs welding in some other industry.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Id like to keep my job

If you have an important and useful role in the filmmaking process there is no reason you should be going anywhere. No one wants to stop making movies. I’m sorry your bosses boss is an greedy asshole and you might get some flack from that.

But times do change and industries adapt or die. Did you weep for the projectionists when your industry when to automated projectors? Did you cry for all the radio show sound effects men when TV destroyed the radio show? What about the 100,000s of thousands of milk delivery men, oh where have they gone? It always sucks if people lose their job due to forward progress but that is not a good enough reason to hunker down in the old system and refuse to change or adapt.

Now excuse me while I listen to the Lone Ranger and wait for my milk to get here.

Anonymous Coward says:

” I’d like to keep working as a union grip, making $22.00+ an hour, with health benefits, able to support my family at a fair standard of living, like the other 350,000 or so professional film workers supported by this legacy industry. Any suggestions? Do you even understand where I’m coming from? And maybe some you self appointed experts on my job market would like to share how you make a living!”

Has your union rep had a meaningful discussion with producers of shows like ‘Sanctuary’, which uses primarily ‘virtual’ sets ? This would seem to be a more immediate threat to your way of life than anything discussed in this article.

The world does not owe you or anyone else a living. Learn something new.

Anonymous Coward says:

Id like to keep my job

One last thing; being an insider of sorts, what’s the feeling you take away from the grip community at large on the fact that the major studios are posting record profits during the “end-time” for old school, Hollywood style money making? Oh, and how do record profits threaten the industry, your job in the industry, or the American way of life? Tis technology’s the demon, it is. Fewer people to turn the cranks as the cranks become more obsolete. Soundin’ like a crank myself.

Union Grip says:

I'd like to keep my job

Glad to see there’s interest in this question. I’d like to add to and clarify my points:

One thing I’ve noticed in Mike’s commentary about the film business is a tendency to promote “alternative business models” to REPLACE the existing ones. I have nothing against his business models, but see them as a different strata of the market, adding to the market rather than replacing it. I would like to get him to acknowledge the difference between a $30mil movie that employs hundreds of people at family wages for months and a $30,000 straight to Internet project made by people mostly working for free or very low wages, and how this affects the economy overall.

I’d also like to establish a distinction between “legacy gatekeepers” and “legacy industry” and note that I am also quite critical of the former while still supporting the latter. I personally have no love for the MPAA, and feel they have proven themselves unworthy of trust or respect. The best thing they could do for the industry is disband completely. It would be necessary for a similar organization to take their place but better to clean house and start fresh.

I detect resentment from some people towards the film industry. Why? Other than being used as a pretext for passing crap like SOPA etc., how is this industry doing harm? Is not 350,000 family wage jobs better than more unemployment?

I can also assure you we in the trenches of the industry are always painfully aware of the tenuousness of our employment. It is a boom or bust type business and I have stuck it out through lean times to get where I am. And yes, IATSE is in contract negotiations and right now the producers guild, sitting on top of record profits, is attempting to chisel away our benefits, decrease overtime and freeze cost of living raises.

I do see value to embracing the tech world, and if I didn’t stay hungry and hustle I wouldn’t survive in this ultra competitive business, but I wish more techdirt commenters really understood the world of feature and network TV (dramatic series) production.

JMT says:

Re: I'd like to keep my job

“I detect resentment from some people towards the film industry. Why? Other than being used as a pretext for passing crap like SOPA etc., how is this industry doing harm?”

Not “the industry”, just those running it. Harmful actions would include continual pushing for copyright expansion to the public’s detriment, fighting against every single new movie distribution technology (VCR, DVD ripping, Netflix), Hollywood accounting that makes massively successful films “unprofitable”, suing individuals for life-ruining amounts, etc. I’m sure other can add to the list.

That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

Re: I'd like to keep my job

The comment made by the MPAA sums up what a large portion of the problem is –
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120314/14022218109/mpaa-exec-only-we-can-make-content-that-people-want.shtml
The MPAA doesn’t make ANYTHING but ludicrous claims, but “speak” for an entire industry.

The Legacy Industry is slow to accept new ideas, preferring to put out part 2, 3, 4, 5, et al. to wring every possible dime out of a franchise until the consumers are bored with it.

There are places out there for movies not designed to cost $300 Million and still make money. Blair Witch Project jumps to mind, it was new different and fresh (if often nauseating with shaky cam). But then they made part 2, and spawned an entire season of shaky cam movies. Not because they were good, but because they fit into the slots on the page of how to make a “success”.

They wield enormous power over what makes it to screens, and often skip project worthy of better treatment. Indies tend to listen to real fans, not focus groups.

The biggest issue is Hollywood is just sure they are loosing money, and the fans feel like war was declared on them.
The money being lost is largely imaginary, and much of it could be replaced if they took advantage of the new distribution methods available. Fans chat globally now, and it frustrates them when the US Fans can spoil the ending of the movie 6 months before they get a chance to even see it. There is the distinct possibility they could make even MORE money by embracing the newest technology and stop treating the world as tiny fragments not connected to each other. It might mean they don’t do $250 million on opening weekend, but they might earn twice that amount if they got the product to market when the fans wanted it. At some point they stopped being considered fans and consumers and are instead considered only as revenue.

Comparing this to real world terms…
Its like having an early summer, but the local retailer refuses to stock summer clothes because the chart says it is not time to sell it yet. Consumers have money and want to purchase, but are denied. Things have changed, but the industry doesn’t want to embrace them… so instead they try to have laws passed to make sure people can’t sell summer clothes until when the chart says it is time. Sounds silly but this is what the industry is embracing. They listen only to the doom and gloom forecasts coming out of the MPAA offices, and throw good money after bad because this time the MPAA has a no fail plan… like every other time.

cosmicrat (profile) says:

re: I'd like to keep my job as a union grip

I am the o.c. of the above referenced thread. To those who wish to “track my crap”, I wasn’t signed in with my un because I was unaware I could log in while on my iphone.

I feel like we are making some progress here, at least we all may get some other perspectives on the issues.

Mike, I am gratified that you personally responded to my comments, but you still haven’t addressed my question: Do you recognize the difference economically between a $30mil feature film employing hundreds of people at family wages for months as compared to a $30,000 straight to internet production where most of the crew worked for free, for low wages or “on spec” and in the end perhaps a handful of people derived significant income to support themselves? Do you think “crowdfunding” is going to scale so much as to support 350,000 workers year after year? I agree that these are exciting new paradigms and I fully support them, but I don’t see them replacing the mainstream production community any time soon.

I also want to reiterate my call for a lot of you to start differentiating big media corporations (“legacy gatekeepers”), from the rank and file, blue collar workers, many of us unionized, who actually toil and make a living making movies and TV. WE ARE NOT THE ENEMY! We are victims of a predatory capitalistic economy just like many of you. I paid dues for years, worked on low/no budget indies for crap wages, constantly honed my craft, networked and hustled, and now I can support my family decently and not much better. Most of the the 350,000 film workers we’re talking about are similar to me. I don’t have any respect for the MPAA. I protested loudly against SOPA, PIPA, and now ACTA and TPP. The executives of Warner Bros or NBC/Universal have no more in common with me than the executives of Microsoft or Adobe do with a lowly tech support guy or software engineer. Please stop lumping us in with those guys.

So some of you are telling me my job is doomed and I’m going to have to re-train and find another line of work, well that’s fair, it’s one possible future, but it bothers me that some of you seem happy about it. You know, I feel sorry for the autoworkers. I have genuine sympathy for the family farmers. I have compassion for the millions of Americans who have lost their jobs to sweatshop factory workers overseas. I recognize reality, and I have not had it easy in life (at least by American standards), but I’m not celebrating the plunging of the entire world into substandard wages and working conditions.

Mike Masnick (profile) says:

Re: re: I'd like to keep my job as a union grip

Do you recognize the difference economically between a $30mil feature film employing hundreds of people at family wages for months as compared to a $30,000 straight to internet production where most of the crew worked for free, for low wages or “on spec” and in the end perhaps a handful of people derived significant income to support themselves? Do you think “crowdfunding” is going to scale so much as to support 350,000 workers year after year? I agree that these are exciting new paradigms and I fully support them, but I don’t see them replacing the mainstream production community any time soon.

Of course I recognize the difference, but I think you’re being a bit dismissive in an unfair way. First of all, it’s not just that the new system allows for a bimodal model of $30k internet productions and $30 million features. It creates a much larger spectrum of productions that can be made… from the hugely expensive films to mid-range to cheap and everything in between. It opens up new opportunities for real, paid productions in the low to mid-range, which will need professional help and will offer new opportunities for folks like you.

And please note, also, that I am not saying that the *only* option is crowdfunding. Kickstarter is getting some attention — and we’re already seeing more and more works close out at higher price points (over $3 million for that recent video game, for example). As the numbers keep growing, I think it’s quite likely that we’ll soon seen much more expensive movie productions be funded that way.

But — and this is important — that’s still not *the only way* that such works will be funded. I mentioned TopSpin, as that’s a way of making money on the backend, not the front end, by helping filmmakers go direct to fans and bundle a variety of different options at different “tiers” to let people price themselves in at a level they feel comfortable supporting. And they’re not the only ones doing that, of course.

And there are other new forms of revenue streams, including things like YouTube and Netflix which will continue to develop over time.

And…. let’s not forget the theater. Box office numbers continue to be *fantastic* and that’s a huge help for the high end of the market that you seem most concerned about. I still believe (and there’s evidence to support this) that if the theaters could be brought into line, and studios could be more creative with releases (i.e., not being limited by annoying release windows), the studios would see a lot more money as well. Plus, studios could get a lot more creative, and do bundles that involve theater showing PLUS video PLUS meet a star or whatever. Lots of options once you get creative.

Also, if you could get theaters to finally realize that they have to make the experience better, and you’d see a world of difference. I see the Alamo Drafthouse is expanding all the way to San Francisco now. That’s an example of a theater that *does it right*. Others could and should learn from them.

Point being: there’s a ton of ways that filmmakers can make money, and that will clearly open up all sorts of new opportunities for you and your colleagues.

Cosmicrat says:

Gina Hall background

I found Gina’s story on Huff interesting but am disappointed she didn’t go further. She did finish her essay with “stay tuned” so hopefully we’ll be reading more from her.

Those interested in learning about the industry may want to read her previous post in Huff about internships in the production industry.

Add Your Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Have a Techdirt Account? Sign in now. Want one? Register here

Comment Options:

Make this the or (get credits or sign in to see balance) what's this?

What's this?

Techdirt community members with Techdirt Credits can spotlight a comment as either the "First Word" or "Last Word" on a particular comment thread. Credits can be purchased at the Techdirt Insider Shop »

Why You Can't Have A Tacocopter Drone Deliver You A Taco For Lunch Today
Harry Potter And The Missing Middlemen: Where The Pottermore Store Goes Wrong
Follow Techdirt

Techdirt Daily Newsletter

Ctrl-Alt-Speech

A weekly news podcast from
Mike Masnick & Ben Whitelaw

Subscribe now to Ctrl-Alt-Speech »
Techdirt Deals
Techdirt Insider Discord
The latest chatter on the Techdirt Insider Discord channel...
Loading...