Dear Judge Koh: Competition Is No Reason To Ban A Phone
from the that's-ridiculous dept
We already had mentioned that Apple had succeeded in getting a rare pre-trial injunction against Samsung’s tablets, but now it’s also succeeded in blocking the Galaxy Nexus phone as well, though the judge’s reasoning is a bit bizarre:
“Apple has made a clear showing that, in the absence of a preliminary injunction, it is likely to lose substantial market share in the smartphone market and to lose substantial downstream sales of future smartphone purchases and tag-along products,” Judge Koh said in Friday’s ruling.
First of all, this seems to be yet another admission by Apple that it just can’t compete in the marketplace against Samsung. Such a ruling seems to scream out to potential buyers: hey, check out the devices that even Apple admits you’d want over its own. But, more importantly, “losing substantial market share” is what competition is all about. If someone comes out with a better product, then the other company should lose substantial market share. That doesn’t deserve an injunction. That harms the market, who clearly — even by Apple’s own admission, apparently — wants the other product more.
The fact that two phones will compete is no reason to ban a phone. Let them compete. Let the market decide.
Even more bizarre is why an injunction should be issued at all. Following the MercExchange decision, courts are only supposed to issue injunctions in exceptional cases. If it’s an issue that can be dealt with by requiring a royalty, then there’s no reason to issue an injunction.
Samsung, of course, is appealing this and asking that the injunction be put on hold until that appeal is heard. In the meantime, some are pointing out that, for all of Apple’s insistence that Samsung copied the designs of its phone and tablet from Apple, you could easily make the argument that Apple got some inspiration from Samsung as well:
Filed Under: android, competition, injunction, iphone, lucy koh, patents
Companies: apple, samsung
Comments on “Dear Judge Koh: Competition Is No Reason To Ban A Phone”
LOOK AT HOW SIMILAR THEY ARE!!!!!!!
The rounded corners, oh GOD, THE ROUNDED CORNERS!!! Whole markets are rising and falling on unique combinations osculating radii!!! How DARE they use this CRITICAL feature without permission??? Do they know how many hours of sanding it took to shave each phone down to specs by hand???
Oh, they aren’t unique? There’s other stuff involved in making a phone? The curves aren’t shaped into being by the mental prowess of the Geniuses? Well, that just ruins all the fun.
Re: LOOK AT HOW SIMILAR THEY ARE!!!!!!!
>.> *combinations of
Re: LOOK AT HOW SIMILAR THEY ARE!!!!!!!
Heck, even my Blackberry has rounded corners. Hey Apple time to sue RIM!!! Someone has to get what’s left there!!
Re: Re: LOOK AT HOW SIMILAR THEY ARE!!!!!!!
WOZ needs kicked in his blackberries..lol
Re: Re: Re: H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
The F700 angle has been shown false. Some have said, given the debunking, that all this shows is that companies can sometimes come up with similar designs at the same time, purely by coincidence.
Has everyone forgotten that Samsung manufactures the screens for iPhones? Apple had to deliver to Samsung their specs and technical diagrams so that the screens could be made.
Samsung then took that information and immediately began constructing a look-alike, in true Asian-Corporate fashion. They may not have had the iOS, but they sure-as-shit could make a look-alike and knock off the superior Apple design. Those who couldn’t afford an iPhone could still have a device that LOOKED like one.
Then Android came along, partly designed by an ex-Apple employee, and Samsung then had their look-alike OS as well.
Anyone who thinks this is just “competition” is fooling themselves: This is brand/design piracy. Unlike what is bandied about as “piracy” these days when we mean “infringement”, what Samsuck is doing is profiting from the rip off of Apple’s designs, for which Apple has paid a great deal, in large part to distinguish their products from others in the same space.
The problem is that Apple’s competitors DON’T WANT their products to be easily distinguishable. They want to draft Apple for the little uptick in momentum that they can get, while letting Apple do all the heavy lifting and face the wind head-on.
From a design perspective, Samsung resembles a leech.
Think about it: If I start a car company, and make a “Hot, New Retro Muscle Car” and make it look *almost exactly* like the new redesigned Dodge Challenger, would you say that Dodge was just being “fearful” that they couldn’t compete if they sought an injunction?
Hell no, you’d say I should get sued.
And you’d be right.
What people have to realize is that knock-offs do more than just cannibalize sales: they create confusion in the market and allow inferior products to masquerade as industry front-runners.
Perhaps this is the cross the front-runner must bear, but that doesn’t mean you have to take it sitting down.
Re: Re: Re:2 H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
Has everyone forgotten that Samsung manufactures the screens for iPhones? Apple had to deliver to Samsung their specs and technical diagrams so that the screens could be made.
Samsung then took that information and immediately began constructing a look-alike, in true Asian-Corporate fashion. They may not have had the iOS, but they sure-as-shit could make a look-alike and knock off the superior Apple design.
So you admit that Samsung development and manufacture is smarter than Apple – since they got to market first!
Seems to me that this just is competition.
Re: Re: Re:2 H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
Anyone who thinks this is just “competition” is fooling themselves: This is brand/design piracy.
No, you’re wrong, it’s competition.
Think about it: If I start a car company, and make a “Hot, New Retro Muscle Car” and make it look *almost exactly* like the new redesigned Dodge Challenger, would you say that Dodge was just being “fearful” that they couldn’t compete if they sought an injunction?
Yes, if Dodge went all law-suity, I would say they were afraid of the competition.
Hell no, you’d say I should get sued.
Nope, I wouldn’t.
What people have to realize is that knock-offs do more than just cannibalize sales: they create confusion in the market and allow inferior products to masquerade as industry front-runners.
Don’t agree on cannabalizing sales: in point of fact, there is often an increase in sales as people who can afford the knockoff buy it who would never have been able to afford the “real thing” in the first place. Also, those knock-offs force prices downward, which is good for consumers, especially on ultra-high margin items. Furthermore, I truly doubt anyone has been confused into thinking an Android phone is an iPhone.
p.s. In future posts, you might want to provide some actual facts to back up your positions. Here you just come off sounding like an Apple fanboi.
Re: Re: Re:2 H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
Truly hilarious! We need a sarcasm font for this one. Can’t figure if your are sarcastinating or serious. I’ve up-voted you as funny just to be on the safer side.
P.S. I’ll be filing for copyright the word sarcastinating in a few minutes, so don’t even dare use this on another forum, unless you want to talk to my lawyer
Re: Re: Re:3 H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
Can I license ‘sarcastinating’ from you?
Re: Re: Re:2 H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
What people have to realize is that knock-offs do more than just cannibalize sales: they create confusion in the market and allow inferior products to masquerade as industry front-runners.
What you have to realize is that, provided it is clear that the “knock offs” are not the originals (hence no violation of the spirit of trademark law – which is only intended to protect the public from being deceived) then the existence of knock offs is in the public interest, and the public interest is the only interest that matters here.
Re: Re: Re:3 H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
“What you have to realize is that, provided it is clear that the “knock offs” are not the originals (hence no violation of the spirit of trademark law – which is only intended to protect the public from being deceived) then the existence of knock offs is in the public interest, and the public interest is the only interest that matters here.”
You fail realize that knockoffs have never held the same quality as the originals. The Amazon Kindle Fire was supposed to dethrone the iPad. Hell it outsold iPads in first day sales… people started returning them.
Now, for proof positive knockoffs are never just as good (unless it’s a retro console clone) I direct your attention to the user Ashens of YouTube.
Re: Re: Re:4 H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
So you admit there’s no reason for the original to be afraid of the knockoffs?
Re: Re: Re:2 H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
You completely lost me at “superior Apple design”…
I don’t think those words mean what you think they mean…
Re: Re: Re:3 H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
The one superior thing that I’ve witnessed is that the screen on an iPhone can be cracked and it still is still functional as a touch screen. You could run over them with a Lori and it would still work.
What people are seein as design is “rounded corners”. In the tech world, design is also hardware and placement of said hardware into a device. Rounded corners don’t make a difference, but packing it in a certain way does.
Re: Re: Re:2 H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
you realize there are only so many ways you can put a lcd in a phone right? the bigness of the lcd and the smallness of the phone pretty much universally converge at something looking like and iphone. unless you want a round lcd in a circular shape phone which you cant have because i just patented it.
Re: Re: Re:2 The F700 angle has been shown false.
What?s ?false? about it? The evidence is right there in front of your eyes.
Re: Re: Re:2 H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
You sound smart, but many of your opinions are speculation based.
Many come out with curved smartphone design with touchscreen before Apple. That’s a fact.
Apple rips off costumer blinded by their limited-capability blinks. That’s a fact. A hate-worthy fact.
Re: Re: Re:3 H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
Yes, my HTC Tytn for one. Go suck apples, Brandboi!
Re: Re: Re:2 H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
Why do you call yourself BrandMan when it is self evident to all that you are only a one brand man.. Apple
What people have to realize is that knock-offs do more than just cannibalize sales: they create confusion in the market and allow inferior products to masquerade as industry front-runners.
You can tell exactly by this one sentence though that you have no clue and just are someone else using faith based ideals that show everyone that sadly Apple’s marketing hype and puffery actually work on the deluded.
Samsung’s products are more innvative than Apple’s are as are HTC’s and also Nokia’s. Why? Becasue Apple have not innovated ANYTHING since producing a Music player bundled with a phone. They refuse to add functionality that consumers want, refuse to innovate towards what the market desires or expects, refuses to adapt to changing conditions and refuses to accept that people aren’t sheep.
The rest of the world now buys more NON apple devices than ever before, both Apple and HTC are running neck and neck ABOVE Apple in smart-device sales (tablets and phones)
Samsung can, and I expect at some stage they will have to, refuse to sell the screens to Apple anymore. Apple will then scream and complain to the courts in the USA who guess what, have no power over what Samsung Electronics Inc (or its many affiliates) actually sell or not sell.. And if you think a breach of contract suit (whilst the screen contract is in force) would concern them or hurt them.. HA!
Professionally I love Apple products, I can pull stuff of them that is absolutely astounding and beneficial to forensic examinations/investigations more than any Android/Win phone is. For this reason alone I tell everyone I know NOT to buy Apple products!
If Apple start innovating again and bring to market a conceptual working product that is the ‘next best thing’ great. BUt until then they cannot rest on their laurels and expect the world and competitors to not give them chase and in certain respects catch up and out perform them.
Re: Re: Re:2 H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
“What people have to realize is that knock-offs do more than just cannibalize sales: they create confusion in the market and allow inferior products to masquerade as industry front-runners.”
This is hogwash that is simply insulting to consumers. Nobody confuses Samsung phones with iPhones, round corners or not. They decide to buy one or the other depending on which one they feel offers them the most value.
Re: Re: Re:3 H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
” Nobody confuses Samsung phones with iPhones, round corners or not.”
Samsung’s own lawyers did at a distance of 10 feet or less during the initial hearings if I recall. The phone was a Galxy IIIS. The tablet they confused was the Galaxy 10.1 tab.
😛
Re: Re: Re:4 H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
I have both of those Samsung devices (and a few others) with both an iPod and iPad.
Believe me, once you turn them on or in case of Tablets, pick them up, you can NEVER be confused. The moron in a hurry test does not care whether you can confuse them at first glance, since Televisions, toasters, ovens, etc can all be confused at a distance from each other (even laptops which Apple wont mention how similar theirs are to others that were first to market). The test is also whether a Reasonable person would be confused, and if confused would they purchase one over the other ONLY because of the confusing ‘design’
Once you have seen a Galaxy 3 or HTC One in action (or a multitude of newer devices about to hit the market late this year to middle 2013) you would understand why Apple is so scared and why they are doing what any creature faced with fear of it’s survival does. The fight or flight instinct kicks in, and well Apple are fighting whether they can win or not. f Apple wins in the USA, well.. so be it… but they are losing everywhere else. their 5% market of the USA should NOT be their major concern, its the rest of the planet that are basically NOT purchasing their products any more, that is where their strategic focus should be. The Samsung (and HTC) suits are smoke and mirrors making themselves look good for investors and stoking their corporate Ego. Nothing more
Re: Re: Re:4 H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
You’re right there is a big problem with online retailers providing no close up shots of phones and tablets prior to purchase. On top of that, if you tried to buy one in a good-old-fashioned bricks-and-mortar shop, you would absolutely not, in no circumstances, be allowed to examine one closely first.
NO-ONE KNOWS WHAT THEY’VE BOUGHT UNTIL THEY GET IT HOME!
SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!
Re: Re: Re:4 H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
“Samsung’s own lawyers did…”
I’ll clarify: Nobody buys a Samsung by mistake thinking it’s an iPhone, or vice versa.
Re: Re: Re:4 H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
no way can you confuse a Galaxy sIII with an iphone unless you are semi-blind. They are only similar in the same way that cars are similar, and I fail to see how different you can make touchscreen phones look!
Re: Re: Re:2 H8ers Need to Eat Some Apple Pi
Considering Apple only exist in name because they used the name of an existing corporation (Apple Corps) and agreed to not enter the music business?which they later did?(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer), and that they have at the very least taken inspiration from previous designers (http://gizmodo.com/343641/1960s-braun-products-hold-the-secrets-to-apples-future), they should probably get off their high horse.
Re: Re: Re: LOOK AT HOW SIMILAR THEY ARE!!!!!!!
What did Woz do? He hasn’t worked at Apple in decades.
Re: HEY! JUSSA FAHQIN MHOEMYNT
Apple invented rounded corners – there was no such thing in all of history until then.
Rounded corners are Apple’s greatest invention ever!
Evil Genius, Pure Evil Genius, I tell you.
Now, if only Acme had done this …
Re: Re: HEY! JUSSA FAHQIN MHOEMYNT
Yeah, driving on my octagonal wheels sure was bumpy, but lucky for us, Apple came along and smoothed out the ride…
Jobbs was a clever man who had vision but he ‘stole’ just like all the rest. no way did he dream up everything for the products Apple release. he may well have made some things better but they were already ‘out there’ somewhere. like the article says, because of this inability to compete, Apple has gotten rid of the competition instead. sounds just like an entertainment industries stunt to me. trouble is, customers lose out but so do the companies once mistrust and contempt sets in
Re: Re:
Jobs was more than happy to admit he ‘stole’, made it better and made it successful.
I mean really, the ability to get a product kept out of the US market because it has rounded corners? Ya gotta be kidding!
Nice to know Samsung’s phone and tablet are still available in the rest of the world. Particularly the rapidly up and coming consumer market in China and the two close behind like India and Brazil. I wonder how badly this will affect Samsumg’s sales?
I can see Samsung’s ads elsewhere. A play on the I’m a Mac and I’m a PC ads Apple used so well and effectively!.
Re: Re: Re:
But then Jobs said, “Android is stealing from us,” and that he would “bury” Google for daring to do so.
We have a word for that: Hypocrisy.
Re: Re:
(Android has multitasking.)
Jobs: Nobody needs multitasking on a phone.
iSheep: Yes, nobody needs multitasking on a phone.
(Next year at same annual event where iSheep make pilgramage to see the iMessiah)
Jobs: iPhone has multitasking
iSheep: Multitasking is great, glad Apple invented it.
(iPhone has multitasking, but significantly inferior to Android. One word: badges. Android has this nifty pull down notification bar system.)
(next year)
Jobs: iPhone now has this nifty pull down notification bar
(no mention of where that feature has been seen now for several years)
iSheep: Yes, Apple is innovating!
Re: Re: Re:
um, dude, this pretty much covers apples whole history, take something somebody else already did, slap some new paint on it, do a little idiot proofing, charge to much and say you innovated it.
http://youtu.be/CW0DUg63lqU
the funniest part is, years later the same dbag said he would destroy android because “its a stolen product”
jobs was a prick, karma came back to bite him in the Pancras.
*obligatory jobs joke*
what did one cancer cell say to the other cancer cell
lets get jobs!!
Re: Re: Re: Re:
By that logic everyone has bad karma because everyone dies.
But yeah, major pricocrit.(Prick + hypocrit)
Re: Re: Re:
Spoken like a true Android Robot
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Accusing atheist of believing in Nothing.
Re: Mistrust & Contempt
I have had Mistrust and Contempt for Apple ever since they sued MS for the Windows “look and feel” issue, (mouse and GUI) which was an idea that Apple stole from Xerox in the first place. That aspect of Apple’s business has not changed since the Mac, not that I like MS that much either, or any company that screws over the customers. The competing factors should be design, desirability, production, reliability and price only. With no shade of monopoly allowed.
Re: Re: Mistrust & Contempt
Apple used a totally different programming language than Xerox. They also invented the script to keep the mouse cursor on the screen. Apple invented a new GUI, not stolen from Xerox. They let Microsoft take a look at it during a tour. Microsoft implemented the SAME exact software into Windows 2.0. So Apple was not suing for the concept, they were suing for code.
Re: Re: Re: Mistrust & Contempt
if original_post is sarcastic:
Yup. Makes sense. Probably MS just copied safari.exe into IE.exe and bundled it with windows.
else:
Have marked this as funny. So if Apple used a different programming language that is not a copy, but if someone else does it (assuming MS did indeed get inspired by Apple) that is bad ? Just for arguments sake, how do you know that MS did not use a different programming language, or did not write another “script” ?
The F700 did not proceed the iPhone.
http://androidcommunity.com/who-was-really-first-apple-vs-samsung-story-truly-debunked-20110420/
or
http://www.slashgear.com/iphone-samsung-f700-prada-phone-rumors-debunked-20147320/
This particular story has been debunked for well over a year.
Re: The F700 did not proceed the iPhone.
That makes the case even stronger as they were devolved a month apart:
the F700 was never seen until February of 2007 and our very own slashgear had it completely covered. This is AFTER Apple announced and showed the world the iPhone January 9th 2007 at MacWorld.
So the evidence shows that both were in development around the same time.
Couldnt be that developers/engineers had the same ideas as … well… anyone else at the same time. Again its who got to the patent office first.
Re: Re: The F700 did not proceed the iPhone.
aah. the patent office!! thank the Lord. where would we be without it??
Re: Re: Re: The F700 did not proceed the iPhone.
where would we be without it??
Probably on a totally awesome Mars colony because of all of the technological advancement.
Re: The F700 did not proceed the iPhone.
December 15th 2006 5:50PM
http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/15/the-lg-ke850-touchable-chocolate/
Re: Re: The F700 did not proceed the iPhone.
shhhhh you will get the page removed, engadget is after all, an apple fanboi site.
Re: Re: Re: The F700 did not proceed the iPhone.
I dunno, I saw a refreshing amount of Apple-flavoured Hate.
Re: The F700 did not proceed the iPhone.
Well, in a sense, the F700 did lead to the iPwn, if that’s to be believed.
However, this (http://sim-unlock.net/foto/12_11_06_HTC_Cingular_8125.jpg) , by quick google search, definitely PRECEEDED the iPwn–and so, according to your usage of the word, PROCEEDED to the iPwn. And, since the HTC has rounded corners, a touch screen, icons, and a round button on the bottom, HTC should sue crApple for infringement. QED.
foaming at the mouth
Samsung’s tablets – cant wait to get my hands on one of these things. If crApple is trying so hard to squash this, then it must be really cool.
Re: foaming at the mouth
I really wasn’t interested in any tablet … Now I have to have one of these Samsung’s! Apple and all the feds they bought and paid for can kiss my butt.
Hmm, Can you spot the difference??? (can’t link pics, so i have to link the page.)
LG 55″ TV:
http://compare.ebay.com/like/270990860235?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar
Sony 55″ TV:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_05771743000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=33-62369665-2
Samsung 55″ TV:
http://www.alltimetvs.com/Samsung-UN55D6000-55-1080p-LED-LCD-HDTV/p-16?gclid=CO2PkuXy-7ACFWIGRQod_n4TJg
I don’t see them raising any concerns about basic shape. All TV’s are squares (and yes, a rectangle can be considered a square.) All phones and tablets are going to LOOK the same. The difference is how well they function.
If Apple can no longer compete in a free market with all their overpriced gadgets (that are now going to require all new docking stations/charging plugs) they deserve to be left in the dust. I can’t wait to see the Streisand Effect take shape and slowly watch Apple lose their marketshare.
Re: Re:
No a square can be considered a rectangle, but a rectangle isn’t always a square. (Do remember your Elementary Geometry)
Re: Re: Re:
Derp. yeah, that’s what I ment. Trying to type all that on my lunchbreak. That’s why I said All tv’s are square including the widescreen 16:9 ratio. Just got my logic backwards explaining it.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
I’m sorry to say your logic wasn’t what you got wrong.
FYI the square is a special type of rectangle where all sides are the same length. Something with a 16:9 aspect ratio is nothing but a rectangle.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Maybe Apple just needs to think outside the parallelogram 😉
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
Ooo, a parallelogram-shaped phone, now that would be novel! You could have a right-hand and left-hand version – think of the patent wars!
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
i’m just waiting for the design philosophies behind most cheap home electronics to flow over into the portable electronics world. Then i can have a translucent blue cell phone that’s shaped like a smashed eggplant.
Re: Re: Re:
But is a square an enix?
Didn’t Apple try to get the X-box banned for import over patent infringement. I don’t have an Apple phone, but I do have an x-box, so F— Apple.
Re: Re:
No, that’s Motorola (and by extension Google).
F700
The Samsung F700 is a vastly different phone than the copycats currently in question and they use mostly the exact same parts as an iPhone. Yould have to use a display model of an iPhone or 4th Gen iPod Touch to understand how coppied the interface and design is. The F700 uses buttons on the side to pan through the home screen. The iPhone is totally different from the F700 so the picture up there is a totally invalid comparison. Someone is just adimently anti rich corporation. You don’t make money with innovation alone. Apples strength over any platform is its uniformity. You can apply low level hardware hacks to most iPod Touches and iPhones and iPads because the hardware is mostly uniform across and the same for each component. You can root iPhones a lot easier because the software doesn’t have to be made for specific hardware. Stop complaining about Apple.
Re: F700
Yes, stop complaining about Apple you guys! Apple is infallible. You must never complain about Apple or else!
Re: F700
lol, your an idiot, apple claims rounded corners and buttons aligned in a grid pattern are theirs, you cant copy that
screw you apple fanboy and fuck off apple, who never really made a superior product, just convinced you mouth breathing isheeple you had to have this to be cool
Re: Re: F700
As your attempt to troll has failed miserably. You refuse to use an Apple product because it goes with the “the crowd”. I don’t think I ever claimed in my statement that Apple has superior product (though it’s a he’ll of a lot easier to use than most). My point is the information in that Article is invalid because the F700, while it precedes the iPhone, is not the product ban. The Gallaxy IIIS shares components (not designs as you do spuriously decide to point out in the only piece of information you’ve ever read about how phones are made) that were licensed exclusively to Apple to use in Apple products by Samsung. Samsung is using the same exact camera and tactile touch screen detection system as the one Apple has.
So please read before you flame or troll a statement, you may learn something.
“Screw you Apple Fanboy” just reeks of Strawman argument and therefore I find your lack of intelegence is disturbing.
Note, I admit the “leave Apple Alone” bit was extreme, but I’m glad I spotted some trolls.
Re: Re: Re: F700
I think you will find that “Screw you Apple Fanboy” is actually an opinion, not a logical fallacy. Given your inability to also spell ‘intelligence’ (ironic, eh?) I strongly recommend you go spend some quality time with a good dictionary.
Re: Re: Re:2 F700
The reason for the spelling is that I’m using my Android phone….bad spell correction. The mobile Techdirt site has no way to leave a comment. Also, your argument about my spelling is quite invalid. It’s a Strawman argument because you have nothing else to go on.
Re: Re: Re:3 F700
If you are using any sort of phone with spell correction, then you can’t have it turned on. And proof-reading is essential when you are going to call someone out on a message board about there ‘intelegence’.
Basic message board posting 101 son!
Re: F700
You guys! Stop complaining about Apple complaining about Samsung and getting a judge to hear their complaints and tell Samsung to fuck off!
Re: Re: F700
A proper judge would tell them both to fuck off.
Re: F700
Are you going to make a video “Leave Apple alone!”?
Youtube: LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!
Re: F700
> The F700 uses buttons on the side to pan through the home screen.
Big deal. The main basic thing here is that none of this stuff is really new. Most of it is basic GUI stuff applied to new IO devices.
Sliding your finger is clicking a mouse and dragging it.
A lot of this stuff translates directly from the desktop. I think Windows 3.1 every time I see any “smart phone”.
It’s your basic “mahogany mouse trap”.
Patents were never meant to be a virtual land grab.
Re: Re: F700
Thank you for an intelligent response to my mild ignorance 🙂
Why innovate when you can legislate?
Re: Why innovate when you can legislate?
You mean ?litigate?…
So apple takes a design and improves it, and then cock blocks anyone else from doing the same thing, what bunch of knobs
Re: Re:
they didn’t really improve on rounded corners and buttons aligned in a grid, just claim to own it
So much for your beloved free market, Americans. It’s only free if you don’t piss off someone with lots of money and lawyers.
Re: Re:
So much for your beloved free market, Americans.
Do you actually believe a single word that comes out of American mouths? You’re talking about the country that invented the phrase “there’s a sucker born every minute”!
Lies and self-delusion are all they have. Oh, and war.
Re: Re: Re:
Wait a second, “there’s a sucker born every minute” is true. I live amongst the prime example. Yeah, I’m American. 🙁
Re: Re:
Maybe because this isn’t a free market. Crony capitalism rules over here and it SUCKS!!!!
Thanks to Apple's injunction I bought a Nexus
Thanks to Apple putting in the injunction, it was enough of an incentive to go out and buy a new smartphone, a good one: Nexus. You know the phone that Apple is suing to keep it from the US market because its that good. I didn’t want to wait a month and deal with the injunction. I was planning on getting the Galaxy S3, but after looking at the lawsuit, I drove down to Vierzon and got the Nexus S. Its a damn good phone, completely happy.
Thanks Apple for making this purchase of your competitors products possible. You deserve all the hate for your brand that you are generating.
Come Here Jobs!
We need to talk.
Apple still sucks dick
Even with the death of Jobs it’s still stuck on the suck.
I just bought a Samsung Galaxy Player 4.2 to replace my aging iPod. I had considered buying an iPod touch, but Apple’s recent antics have convinced me never to buy another Apple product. If they get one penny more from me, it will be too much.
Re: Re:
Good for you *thumbs up*
Koh's decision is strange...
Especially in light of Judge Posner’s recent dismissal of Apple v. Motorola, wherein he said that competition is a legally permissible harm and was not valid justification for an injunction.
Apple, fuck you!
I just want a Google Glass dude!
“…courts are only supposed to issue injunctions in exceptional cases…”
“Exceptional” is not a factor in the decision by a court to award or deny a request for injunctive reflief. The Supreme Court’s MercExchange v. eBay decision did not change in any way the longstanding requirements for injunctive relief.
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The Supreme Court’s MercExchange v. eBay decision did not change in any way the longstanding requirements for injunctive relief.
I’ve yet to meet a single knowledgeable person who thinks that’s true. Because it’s not.
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Then your circle of “knowledgeable persons” is quite small indeed, not to mention that if what you attribute to them is correct…then they are wrong.
Prior to MercExchange, a party successfully asserting a patent was granted a permanent injunction except in only “exceptional” circumstances. MercExchange stopped this practice, requiring that the award of equitable relief in the form of a permanent injunction follow the same procedures and analysis as required for other contested matters of law.
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To facilitate your understanding of my comments, below is the pertinent part of the syllabus for the case detailing what the court held:
Held: The traditional four-factor test applied by courts of equity when considering whether to award permanent injunctive relief to a prevailing plaintiff applies to disputes arising under the Patent Act. That test requires a plaintiff to demonstrate: (1) that it has suffered an irreparable injury; (2) that remedies available at law are inadequate to compensate for that injury; (3) that considering the balance of hardships between the plaintiff and defendant, a remedy in equity is warranted; and (4) that the public interest would not be disserved
by a permanent injunction. The decision to grant or deny such relief is an act of equitable discretion by the district court, reviewable on appeal for abuse of discretion. These principles apply with equal force to Patent Act disputes. “[A] major departure from the long tradition of equity practice should not be lightly implied.” Weinberger v. Romero-Barcelo, 456 U. S. 305, 320. Nothing in the Act indicates such a departure. Pp. 2–6.
Ohhh Apple
Seriously , they said they would take android down even if it meant mutual destruction, this shows what type of business they are running, a business that uses others advancements to create a great product but when people use there advancments to creat an even better product they complain. Well they will have not only Android taking a huge chunck out of there market share but Microsoft too in the near future, then it will be back to the 4 – 5 % of the market they have alwaysed enjoyed. And everyone else can start going forward once again. I have never owned an apple product, not because i don’t think they are good, i realize they must be very good for them to be such a big success, it is just the attitude by the apple fanboys that irritates me, when i see someone flashing the apple logo on there phone or laptop i laugh in there face as i really do find it funny that they would be so insecure that they need to show of that they can afford the most expensive phone in the market with the least amount of features, well in the beginning they were, now they have started stealing ideas from android they are adding features they should have developed years ago.
Strange how they feel they can use others ideas but nobody should be allowed to use theirs, even if it is just a shape.
Re: Ohhh Apple
Seriously…You don’t like to be flashed?
Jeez…All I gotta do is open up my lid and there’s my logo for all to see! The horror!
Everyone Screams Again
with the anti Apple thing.Not to long ago it was Apple and someone else .Next week it will be Apple suing a different company.
Big Whoop!
It’s a lawsuit! Nothing more. eventually it will be settled.It’s the way things have been done since the first patents.
Everybody steals stuff from everybody…It’s called industrial espionage.There’s a whole industry built up around it.
Does this affect my phone buying decision? Not one bit.I bought an iphone three years ago and getting ready to purchase an ipad3.
The reason? It does what I want it to do and their customer service is in the US (I’m in the US) and it is second to none.
Want to boycott them?…They don’t care.
It won’t change a thing.
I you want to hate somebody, try AT&T. They really do deserve it.
Re: Everyone Screams Again
You just reminded me of one thing. Apple, in my opinion, has always had a more superior, more stable OS.
The one thing I would like to point out is that it takes a long time to find your settings on an Android based phone. You have to dig for it before you can change things. The first thing you see in iOS device, after you swipe the lockup screen is “Settings”. In fact, Apple goes through a setup to figure out what best suits the individual using their new device. It sets your settings based on your answers and allows you to easily change your settings in the future.
When you ask someone to troubleshoot an Android phone, you are typically what make and model your phone is. This is because Google has to program Android to many different device components.
Ask a person about troubleshooting an iOS device, the problem is usually some minor glitch with iOS itself…or the carrier of your service. Problems are quicker to fix on iOS devices because you can save a backup image of the previous working version on your computer.
The reason why Apple sells so many products involving iOS is because of the ease of use in their GUI. They aren’t selling desktops or laptops as much as Dell or HP.
Also, anything that has been held as the iPad killer, or the iPhone killer has failed miserably.
So really after handling both iOS and Android, iOS has the edge. Apple’s tendacy to uniformity allows you to not worry if certain apps will run on a device. With Android you have to worry about the performance of the phone.
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I have no problem with the settings on my android, then again I rarely drool unless I’ve been to the dentist.
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I’m not sure you actually used an Android device, or at least one running any recent version of Android.
I’m still using a first generation Motorola Droid (aka OG Droid) (pre-ordered a Galaxy S3 [inb4injunctions!]). I have no problem getting to the Settings with a single tap on the screen. If the phone glitches, I just reboot, or maybe pull the battery 😉 I haven’t really had to troubleshoot my phone, though I did have to take it apart once after dropping it, but it worked just fine once I put it back together, and most importantly it was actually possible to take apart.
In my opinion, Android has the edge. They have a community of modders who can and do improve the phones long after they have been abandoned; some folks have ported Gingerbread to the OG Droid. I can side-load apps without rooting or jail breaking.
The point is everyone will like Android or iOS for their own reasons. Neither is truly “superior” to the other, it’s mostly a matter of personal taste. I’ve met a couple non-geeks who feel like Apple is a parent trying to tell their child what they are permitted to do.
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My iOS device is an iPod touch 4th gen. My droid is a Samsung SPH-M580….not the best phone admittedly, but it does make calls, that is all I need in a phone. I have used my mom’s droid (HTC make) and I find that Droid’s interface depends largely on each model, so if you upgrade to a new phone, it’s based upon make and model do you have to learn it. If I upgrade to an iPad or iPhone, I don’t have to learn anything new.
Point is, they both do have their strengths and weaknesses. It boils down to preferences. I can’t afford a data plan and are not inclined to use 3G or 4G because of it. It saves me money to just use local wifi hotspots and my own Internet connection. Hell, my wife and I used the 4th gen iPods’ FaceTime feature to keep in touch when we were dating to avoid $350 in overage charges. So while my preferences in mobile devices lay with Apple, I don’t like their desktops or OSX in general. I grew up using Finder 6.0.8 and System 7.1.1 and OS8 and 9, (those were great). So my apple fanboy ism died at the release of OSX.
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“The one thing I would like to point out is that it takes a long time to find your settings on an Android based phone. You have to dig for it before you can change things.”
False. One click and you are in “System Settings”. I just did this on my phone. I also do it on a plethora of Android phones produced by various manufacturers. So already, you’re off to a bad start. As in you’ve either never used an Android device or you’re just flat out lying.
“When you ask someone to troubleshoot an Android phone, you are typically what make and model your phone is. This is because Google has to program Android to many different device components.”
Wow. As a guy who makes a living off rooting/modding Android phones, now I know you’ve never used an Android device. The ONLY time you ever have to ask someone about specific make/models is when you plan on rooting them (because the process is different from phone to phone). Troubleshooting though, never. All problems are basically the same and can be resolved the same way on the majority of devices.
And Google doesn’t program for various device components. They create the OS and much like Apple/Microsoft put out something saying this version of the OS would run optimally on these standards (RAM/chipset/etc), but it will run on these previous standards. It won’t run well on these older devices, but it may still run so feel free to tinker with the source code and find out for yourself.
“The reason why Apple sells so many products involving iOS is because of the ease of use in their GUI.”
Well, until I see some factual evidence to support such a claim, I’ll just dismiss it as YOUR opinion on why they sell so many devices. I will say this, I can pick up an iOS device and be confused as to how I want to do what within seconds. If I pick up any Android device I can instinctively know how to do practically anything on it (even knowing whether it’s rootable or not without looking up any information).
“Also, anything that has been held as the iPad killer, or the iPhone killer has failed miserably.”
I’ve only heard of things described as “iPad killer” or “iPhone killer” by consumers. Never by actual manufacturers. And if they all failed miserably, why then are we seeing Apple sue left and right? Could it be because the products are doing reasonably well, so much so that Apple is losing more ground every day? If the Samsung Galaxy Tab (10.1) was such a failure, what’s the point of having it’s sales banned outright? (We’ll ignore how silly it is to do so when the second generation of the device is already out and on store shelves.) If Apple makes the best smartphone why did they need to change the answer Siri gave when asked, “What’s the best smartphone?” (Answer, before Apple changed it, was the new Nokia WP7.) I mean, suffice it to say at this point, Android and devices running it have reached a point where they can easily surpass (and now have) any iOS device in terms of usability and power. A fact not unremarked on by even the most ardent Apple supporters. (Notice I didn’t say fanboys, because in the tech world there are many out there. And they’ll support Apple no matter what.)
“So really after handling both iOS and Android, iOS has the edge. Apple’s tendacy to uniformity allows you to not worry if certain apps will run on a device. With Android you have to worry about the performance of the phone.”
As I said, I doubt you’ve ever used an Android device. If you have it was a much older version and you’re basing all your opinions on the older version. While there is some fragmentation with Android devices, the majority can run any app. (With the exception of tablet specific versions, which is the same for Apple’s iDevices too. Lest you forget.) As far as performance of the phone, well… no fucking shit, Sherlock. I can’t expect my HTC Hero (still a decent phone) to run games made with the Tegra 3 in mind. However, I can still run the latest version of Android on it with no problems. And while newer versions (of the OS) are more suited to newer and more powerful devices, the majority of phones (most made within the past 2/3 years) WILL run the latest versions of the OS. There may be some problems, but those tend to arise from lack of appropriate drivers for things (camera being the main one), and that is more due to manufacturers not releasing said drivers (nothing to do with the OS/Google). I should add my HTC Hero is my tinker device. As in, it’s old and I only ROM it out of boredom to see how things run on an old device. My daily and more preferred phone is my Nexus S 4G. Which IN MY OPINION can run circles on the iPhone 4S (despite my phone now being 2 years old). And I look forward to upgrading to the Galaxy Nexus (ban or no ban, I’ll get my hands on one soon enough).
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Take a good look at this paragraph.
You say you regularly root your Droid. Youre a good little robot. Yeah see, you root them right away. You’ve only used one interface with your phone. My mom’s droid is a 4G HTC phone. The carrier is Sprint. And I only stated WHY I prefer using iOS.
A lot of the Android sales figures are a skewed because the sales are based on all Android capable devices, not on individual models. Your entire TL/DNR statement is invalid because of the fact that you assume I haven’t used a descent droid phone. I was impressed with the displays my carrier had on display. Maybe becauseas you are an Android robot, you lack the capability to sufficiently analyze your own preferences. Android OS was designed by tech nerds with PHD’s and no understanding of how the average, non tech savvy person thinks.
Sure, Apple’s mobile sales are being beaten, but that’s because all Android devices are counted.
Now, before you go to your mindless robot anti-apple rant, read the statement below since you love quoting me and putting words into my mouth, here you go, my opinion. Now get those prints can eyes working little robot, and actually read.
“Point is, they both do have their strengths and weaknesses. It boils down to preferences. I can’t afford a data plan and are not inclined to use 3G or 4G because of it. It saves me money to just use local wifi hotspots and my own Internet connection. Hell, my wife and I used the 4th gen iPods’ FaceTime feature to keep in touch when we were dating to avoid $350 in overage charges. So while my preferences in mobile devices lay with Apple, I don’t like their desktops or OSX in general. I grew up using Finder 6.0.8 and System 7.1.1 and OS8 and 9, (those were great). So my apple fanboy ism died at the release of OSX.”
Re: Re: Re:2 Everyone Screams Again
“You say you regularly root your Droid. Youre a good little robot. Yeah see, you root them right away. You’ve only used one interface with your phone. My mom’s droid is a 4G HTC phone. The carrier is Sprint. And I only stated WHY I prefer using iOS.”
Wait, I’m a good little robot because I like rooting my devices? What?! Lol. I’ve used a plethora of interfaces on all my phones. From stock Android to HTC Sense to Samsung Touchwiz. Oh, and that’s leaving out the fact that my first smartphone was the OG iPhone. Also, I don’t root any right away. I try them out as is, however I usually buy stock Android devices out of preference. If I get a non-stock Android device (something running HTC Sense or Samsung Touchwiz or whatnot), I try it out, if I don’t like it (and more often than not they don’t add functionality with their manufacturer skins) I then root it and flash a pure AOSP (that means plain ol’ vanilla Android) ROM. (Where you got that I root right away though I haven’t the foggiest. Yet later you accuse me of putting words in your mouth? Tsk tsk.)
“A lot of the Android sales figures are a skewed because the sales are based on all Android capable devices, not on individual models. Your entire TL/DNR statement is invalid because of the fact that you assume I haven’t used a descent droid phone. I was impressed with the displays my carrier had on display. Maybe becauseas you are an Android robot, you lack the capability to sufficiently analyze your own preferences. Android OS was designed by tech nerds with PHD’s and no understanding of how the average, non tech savvy person thinks. “
Really? You went with that. So Apple has NEVER lumped all iOS devices together to pitch iOS usage trumps all? Come on now, you started off not sounding as a fanboy, but you’re falling back on all the usual fanboy comments and remarks. And, I never said anything about Android overall sales. What I said was a handful of devices were doing well competitively, which is why they seem to be being targeted by Apple. That they’re made by Samsung is a bit of a bonus/ridiculous (given that Samsung makes Apple’s parts for them).
Nor did I say you never used a decent phone. What I said was it appears you used an older model with a previous iteration of Android on it and are basing all your judgements upon that. Just because your mom’s phone was an “HTC 4G droid” (fyi, Droid is a Motorola exclusive, if you mean ANDROID device you need to be a bit more specific than “Droid”) DOES NOT mean it was a good device. If anything, based on my knowledge and hands on experience with HTC phones, you basically one way or another used a sub-par device. HTC devices all come non-stock/Sense-skinned. HTC is also known for ruining the overall Android experience by adding a ton of bloatware (although the carrier, Sprint, which is my carrier as well, is also to blame by adding even more bloatware).
“Sure, Apple’s mobile sales are being beaten, but that’s because all Android devices are counted.”
Again, I didn’t say anything about Apple being beaten all around, just that a handful of products seem to be doing quite well. However, the smartphone market share Android has (which is not the same as overall Android usage, which counts ALL products, be they tablets, smart tvs, etc) is growing at a rapid pace. At the moment, said pace/market share has surpassed Apple. And again, you try to keep pinning things on Google that Apple does itself. Namely, combining all products to say, “We have more than you do.” Apple is far guiltier of that than Google.
“Now, before you go to your mindless robot anti-apple rant, read the statement below since you love quoting me and putting words into my mouth, here you go, my opinion. Now get those prints can eyes working little robot, and actually read.”
Well, I’m not anti-Apple. Nor have I stated that I was or implied it (at least I don’t think I did). I have a Macbook and an iPod Classic. In addition to that I have a Dell desktop, a Toshiba laptop, and Compaq laptop. I had an iPhone (sold it years ago, jailbroken because I wanted to do what I wanted with my device, not just what Apple allowed me to do). I have an HTC Hero and Samsung Nexus S 4G. I use all devices.
You’re right, as far as preference goes, to each their own. I did not however put words in your mouth, I pointed out that a lot of what you were saying was misinformed or outright wrong. And I didn’t go anti-Apple rant at all. However,if you’d like me to get some more factually based information kind of painting Apple in a rather bad light, I can do so. I can do the same for Google, but Apple at the moment tends to look worse than Google.
Really though, I quoted you and then I responded to what YOU said. I didn’t put words in your mouth. I merely corrected the claims you were making. If that is interpreted as “putting words in your mouth” then you need to actually learn what that is. For instance, taking my correcting you and spinning that into “anti-Apple rant”… that would be putting words in my mouth. Also, I didn’t call you an Apple fanboy, and I honestly didn’t think you were one (til this last comment where you basically sounded like a die hard one… I practically saw you in my mind foaming at the mouth). So there was no need for that last bit. I saw it, I felt there was nothing wrong with it. Thus I saw no need to quote it, because there was nothing in it that needed correcting. Although I could’ve quoted that preference bit and been like, “Word!” or “Hear hear! To each their own!” Now that I’ve said that, wanna chill out? Or want a picture of my products all together, so you can retract your anti-Apple rant statement about me? Because I can do that if you’d like. Apple fanboy. 😛
Re: Re: Re:3 Everyone Screams Again
Tuch? 🙂 I’ll buy a glass of Droid and eat my Apple pie any day 🙂
Re: Re: Everyone Screams Again
Thanks for proving that Apple mostly caters to the mentally lazy and tech illiterates. Thats how they get away with planned obsolescence by purposefully not including features that could have been easily added during the first few iterations.
And its people like you that stiffle innovation by cheering this kind of stupidity of suing everybody under the sun that remotely competes with you. Specially when you sue for frivolous and obvious crap like Apple has been doing.
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“And its people like you that stiffle innovation by cheering this kind of stupidity of suing everybody under the sun that remotely competes with you. Specially when you sue for frivolous and obvious crap like Apple has been doing.”
I don’t recall ever stating I work for Google/Motorola =)
I also happen to think that the lawsuit is frivolous and ridiculous. Having said that, Judge Koh’s reasoning is not bizarre. In fact, it makes perfect sense from a legal point of view.
The point of a TRO is to prevent an uncorrectable harm. If Samsung really has done something wrong (that’s a big “if”), and its product shouldn’t legally exist, then the fact that it exists as a product will harm those whose products are legal.
Judge Koh did the logical thing in an insane situation. He may not put it that way, of course, but that’s what happened.
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???
Every competitor wants to harm each other that is what they do, that is what competition does it harms your expectations, it harms your chances of winning because another person/entity is doing the winning.
Maybe market harm is for the market to decide not the law.
Monopolies are unfair competition, there is no level playing field with them, so why do we do it?
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Judge Koh is a she.
But yeah, this doesn’t seem out-of-place for a preliminary injunction. I’d hazard that Apple’s argument is two-fold here:
* The loss of market share is irreparable harm. It’s impossible to identify what market share Apple would lose because of Samsung’s alleged infringement, or how much that’s worth. So money damages are inadequate.
* In response to Mike’s point about a royalty — you’re assuming there’s a set royalty rate. I’m assuming the patents that Apple is asserting aren’t FRAND patents. As such, they’re under no obligation to license AT ALL. Apple’s arguing that the true value of the patent isn’t in pressing for royalties, a la Microsoft, but in maintaining the existing monopoly.
There might be an argument for compulsory licensing of patents (although I’m skeptical). And more competition would be nice, although the whole point of patents is to limit competition. But while patent law is sort of screwy, none of this is the judge’s fault.
i was always of the opinion that judges were supposed to be more clever than most people, more sensible and able to make good, rational decisions over complex issues. if the best this and perhaps others can come up with is that letting Samsung sell it’s product will reduce sales of Apple’s products, my opinion is totally wrong. but there again, judges rule the same way in copyright cases involving the entertainment industries, allowing them to keep monopolies rather than forcing them to compete, so nothing new here. i just wish that the same rules applied everywhere. imagine what Apple would say if they weren’t allowed to sell their goods in Korea etc
And to think John Scalzi suggested you couldn’t change your difficulty setting from SWM the easiest difficulty setting; you can if you make it crazy straight white male, that really is hardcore.
Trial
Ok, everyone can stop debating Judge Koh’s decision. It’s a temporary sales ban.
http://techland.time.com/2012/07/03/apple-wins-ban-on-two-android-devices-what-it-means-for-you/
Rooting and Jailbreaking
Rooting is a bit more in depth for the tech nerd (complimentary statement). But what most Android users don’t realize, when they make the argument that it’s easier to root and customize their phones, you have to program it. Don’t get me wrong, I love tinkering with my mobile devices, but In some way, it feels as though (to me at least) that Google failed to realize how many people are not programmers in this world. So it’s easy to say it is easier to root, ROM or Jailbreak the Android device, but only if you know a bit of programming skills. That’s Android’s greatest weakness and strength. You can do whatever the hell you want with it.
I also love my iOS because of “Jailbreaking”. Same thing as rooting or ROMming your Android, just easier for the average user.
So between the two, both market nitches are filled because of software, not the hardware they use. You have all these annoying fanboys trying to vi for power and dominance in better devices. In reality Android is a Solid OS with some hardware compatibility issues at times. iOS has had uniformily better software/hardware combinations, but sometimes the app doesn’t match the updated driver software.
As far as kindle reading is concerned, I prefer Apple’s hardware because the retina display system (yes 326dpi) on my 4th Gen iPod touch allows me to use a magnifying glass when reading text. The verticle screen width is just like a news paper column makes it easier for my bad tracking in my right eye to cope. At that resolution, 1 point font still has rounded edges.
On the other hand, I love using my Android (it’s that HTC model with the 3D screen) as a handheld emulator. It is just the right screen size as my old Gameboy (black and green dot matrix).
In my opinion, I have the best of both worlds and it sort of pisses me’s off that people think their device is superior to others just because they dont unserstand the needs of orhers. Your device doesn’t tell someone you are better, it’s what you need them for that counts. Maybe we need a bit of thought to what others really need rather than debate who’s is better.
As I said, iOS devices fulfill my handicap needs, my droid I use for fun. End of story.
If you think Judge Koh's decision puts into her question her ability to be a judge...
http://www.change.org/petitions/voters-impeach-us-district-judge-lucy-koh
I see someone has been bought and paid for…….