Apple Has To Advertise That Samsung's 'Not Cool' Tablet Is No iPad Copycat
from the wow dept
So even as Apple has been successful in getting a US court to rule against Samsung for having a tablet that Apple thinks looks too much like an iPad, things are shaping up very differently in the UK. We already noted that a judge over there had rejected Apple’s claims in the UK, pointing out that Samsung’s tablet just isn’t as cool as the iPad (leaving Samsung in the awkward position of celebrating the fact that it won the lawsuit due to its own lack of coolness). However, now reports are coming out that the judge has also ordered Apple to advertise online and in print that Samsung didn’t copy the iPad.
The judge apparently told Apple to put a notice on its own website and in UK newspapers telling people that Samsung’s Galaxy Tab — which Apple is clearly afraid of — isn’t a copy. As you might imagine, Apple is not happy about this — though it might as well include the stuff about Samsung’s lack of coolness, if it must discuss things. Either way, Apple is protesting. According to the Bloomberg report linked above:
The notice should outline the July 9 London court decision that Samsung’s Galaxy tablets don’t infringe Apple’s registered designs, Judge Colin Birss said. It should be posted on Apple’s U.K. website for six months and published in several newspapers and magazines to correct the damaging impression the South Korea-based company was copying Apple’s product, Birss said.
The order means Apple will have to publish “an advertisement” for Samsung, and is prejudicial to the company, Richard Hacon, a lawyer representing Cupertino, California-based Apple, told the court. “No company likes to refer to a rival on its website.”
While I agree that Apple’s lawsuit was a bad idea in the first place, and that the company should just compete in the marketplace, I’m at a loss as to the “damaging impression” that this lawsuit would have for Samsung. As the judge himself noted, the iPad is seen as being really cool. And the Samsung tablet… is not. So, why would it damage Samsung’s reputation to have Apple claiming that the devices were too much alike? If anything, it seems like it should help Samsung by advertising which tablet Apple thinks is most like an iPad.
Filed Under: advertising, ipad, not cool, patents, tablets, uk
Companies: apple, samsung
Comments on “Apple Has To Advertise That Samsung's 'Not Cool' Tablet Is No iPad Copycat”
Maybe Apple will think twice next time before they decide to abuse the patent system to stifle competition.
Re: Re:
Marked as funny. Straight-faced sarcasm at its finest. That was sarcasm, right?
I have personally been taking all these lawsuits by Apple towards Samsung as a sign that I should really closely at Samsung products next time I am in the market to buy a smartphone or a tablet.
Actually these lawsuits are part of the reason why I chose a Samsung Galaxy s2 when my friends and I put our money together and bought a tablet for a close friend of ours. Seemed like a no brainer with the price, features, and Apple’s unwitting accolades towards it. He loves it.
Thanks Apple for helping me find more affordable competitors products to purchase. Tell me, will you be putting together a coolness/competitiveness matrix that I can refer to the next time I want to find affordable products similar to Apple products in coolness and ease of use? That would help even more.
Re: Re:
My iPad and iPhone-owning, Mac-committed coworker was quite impressed with another coworker’s Samsung Galaxy Tab and my own Asus Transformer Prime. He noted several features that he wished Apple would copy to make his iPad experience better. I mentioned that the Transformer Pad Infinity was out recently and he said he was looking into it.
Apple is better off ignoring that competition exists rather than drawing attention to competitors.
Re: Re: Re:
He noted several features that he wished Apple would copy to make his iPad experience better.
Copy? You mean invent.
Re: Re:
I have personally been taking all these lawsuits by Apple towards Samsung as a sign that I should really closely at Samsung products next time I am in the market to buy a smartphone or a tablet.
I love my Samsung. Folks here on Techdirt actually provided the reviews that got me to buy it, along with Samsung’s embrace of Cyanogenmod. Rooted and running CyanogenMod 7 (I am working on Cyanogenmod 9, but given that it is my only phone, it may be a while before I upgrade.)
I have family and friends who use iPhone and love them too, but for me the walled garden is too risky. The fact that I have to rely on Apple to maintain my phone, with the dangers of them disabling stuff I use on a regular basis just doesn’t do it for me. And now that I can change my radio and jump telco providers, I am one very happy camper.
Re: Re: Re:
ltlfw0lf, if you don’t mind me asking, what exact Samsung phone do you have? If you need any help or anything like that let me know and I’ll be more than happy to provide assistance in any way I can.
I’m a fan of the Cyanogenmod ROMs and am currently using CM9 Nightlies on my Samsung Nexus S 4G. Well, I was. That is until we got a very lovely almost fully working (currently no GPS, at least as far as locking and for turn by turn navigation goes) port of Jelly Bean. It is buttery smooth and I use that now as my daily driver.
And sorry to everyone else for the off topic comment. I just dig rooting phones and whatnot and like helping out others when I can.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
ltlfw0lf, if you don’t mind me asking, what exact Samsung phone do you have?
Captivate (i897). I actually have a number of Android devices including an Asus Transformer and a B&N Nook, all running various versions of Android. Was going to go for a 4G phone at one time, but I have 4G modems and really, there isn’t much my phone needs 4G for since I use it for mail/web and the occasional low quality YouTube video.
Have no issues with it, just rely on it as my only phone, and thus am a little less brazen about upgrading it. CM9 looks like it is just about stable enough for me to move.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Hey, good news ltlw0lf, your Captivate has officially joined the ranks of CM9 Release Candidate ready phones. It’s gotten the CM9 RC2. If you’re up for it I recommend loading that on your phone to get a nice taste of ICS. Rumor is that CM9 should be final and released in the next few weeks (so I’m thinking sometime next month).
I’ve been running Nightlies myself since I have the Nexus S 4G and they’re great so far. I had the RC1 for my phone but didn’t like it. I plan on installing RC2 some time later today (although it’s hard to want to do so when I’ve got a nearly fully functional version of Jelly Bean on it already).
Just wanted to give you an update.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Google made it more difficult to ROM or root devices with Jellybean on them. Largely due to security flaws.
http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/jelly-bean-security-improvements-make-android-harder-to-hack-1089357
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Alright, you’re looking for a smackdown nice and early, well you got it.
First off, you’re misunderstanding that article, and secondly, that article is nowhere near complete/fully researched.
What Google has done, and it has absolutely nothing to do with root/ROM devices with Jelly Bean, is made it so there are fewer exploits available for people to hack and install malware and such related things on people’s devices. AND ONLY THAT. They have also made it so that the Play Store (and thus apps bought from it) will come with a sort of device related install. Meaning apps will know what device they were installed on and have the related user’s info. What this means is that piracy of apps will slowly be curbed, in an effort to appease some app developers.
Again, Wally, please stop spreading misinformation. You only do yourself harm in such cases because people realize you’re attempting to paint Google and Android in a bad light, then someone comes along and shows how wrong you are and you look like an Apple fan boy (at least this time you didn’t mention Apple, but the quick move to go “ha, you can’t do what you want with your OPEN phone”, which is basically what you said, is the same thing).
Oh, and I’d state my sources, but any Android related site will have the necessary info. Heck, even tech sites in general. Feel free to search for and READ (aiming that at you sir) the info yourself. Engadget, The Verge, Android Authority, Android Police, Android Central, etc all have the related information I’m basing my comment on.
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
Oh, in addition to what I already stated above, I’d also like to state for those who may believe Wally’s incorrect/misinformed comment that I am the proud owner of a Samsung Nexus S 4G, which is running Jelly Bean (Android 4.1). In addition to that it is rooted. For those wondering how difficult [he says with heavy sarcasm] it was to root, let me state exactly what I did to root it.
1. I downloaded the updated Superuser zip file (which covers from Android 2.1 – 4.1+) to my computer
2. Copied the zip file over to the “sd card” of my phone (because the Nexus line doesn’t have expandable storage, but has a built in “sd card”)
3. Rebooted to ClockworkMod Touch Recovery
4. In Recovery I selected “Install zip from sdcard” and selected the Superuser zip
5. Clicked on “Yes” (to install the zip)
6. Waited approximately 5 seconds for it to install the file and tell me it had done so
7. Rebooted phone
8. PROFIT!
9. Laughed at people saying, “Google made it more difficult to ROM or root devices with Jellybean on them.”
10. Laughed at those people even more because I am running a ROM of Jelly Bean, as my phone hasn’t been officially updated yet (none beyond the Galaxy Nexus actually have though). However, it is a fully working ROM, the only thing not functioning is GPS lock, but it does give accurate location information to the meter anyway. (The install process was the same as for Superuser. In point of fact, I installed the ROM moments before installing Superuser.)
Difficult indeed. Ha! (Also, there are tons of one-click methods which will install everything from recoveries to ROMs to root your phones out there, thus making the process even easier. I just did it the way above because I prefer to not use those methods, and also to show each individual step in the process when doing it manually, and to show that it is not at all a complicated process. No matter how much some may claim otherwise, because they have indeed done so in other Apple/Android related articles. No need to name names, but you can easily see who I’m referring to.)
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Actually, I felt like finding it for you. Why? Just to show what a full and well researched article says and shows in comparison to that quite informative one you posted up.
Ars Technica
http://arstechnica.com/security/2012/07/android-jelly-bean-hard-to-exploit/
In related news, Apple gets mentioned in the article. In a positive light. Namely for there implementation of related technical stuff to prevent app piracy (which isn’t foolproof as plenty of sites and people will tell you).
Again though, nowhere does it say rooting and flashing ROMs will be impeded or flat out done away with.
I’ll add more related articles as I find them. Frankly, I’m making it my goal for the day to present as many to put misinformation and bias in it’s place as possible. (Which means Sad Mac further above, look out. I’ll put you in your place soon enough. Oh, and as an Android smartphone owning user, I should add, I own an iPod and a Macbook, and owned several iPhones when they first came out. Android does not have the same features throughout, in fact they have features and have had them for years before any even remotely similar were “innovated” and “invented” by Apple/iOS. There is also no conformity whatsoever between versions of Android and the various phones. The experience differs literally from handset to handset, and sometimes from the same phone to the same phone. But I wouldn’t expect you to know that, Sad Mac, a true Apple fanboy.)
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
XDA’s take on the Jelly Bean Security Related Updates (with a bit more info on it, as well as pointing out that Apple has done so before Android… “One could claim that iOS is being proactive with such techniques, but in reality, they?re simply being reactive to the type of exploits that typically target the iOS platform.”)
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/jelly-bean-implements-higher-level-of-security/
Short-term memory loss
Would someone remind apple of the 50+ “pc vs mac” ads they had on their website for several years? I do believe those qualify as “referring to a rival on their website”
Re: Short-term memory loss
It wwould be pointless to have a “don’t say windows” policy when everyone has heard of it. -_-
Re: Re: Short-term memory loss
we call them “miniaturized coding transparent rectangles”.
Re: Short-term memory loss
Or those Verizon vs. AT&T commercials.
This order is preposterous, but I can’t deny there’s a fair bit of Schadenfreude in seeing a company forced to do something this embarrassing as punishment for a petulant patent lawsuit.
I can only hope it sets a precedent that can readily be referenced in the future.
Re: Re:
How is it preposterous?
Apple made a huge stink about Samsung “copying” them; now they’re being forced to publish a retraction.
That’s not strange at all.
Re: Re:
I’m not quite sure if your comment is a form of agreement or disagreement but let us hope this chills the heck out of Apple so they’ll lessen their litigation efforts and actually compete in the market.
Cool! Awesome! Radical! Groovy!
All those and many more are meaningless exhortations made by morons for morons.
Unfortunately, the world is full of morons.
Re: Cool! Awesome! Radical! Groovy!
If you mean all those words as in used to describe a “flavor of the month”, then yes, they are indeed for morons.
I agree re: the damaging impression with respect to Samsung. Maybe the judge decided to take this extra step simply to discourage such lawsuits in the future.
Wait, what effect will this have here in the US? Will Samsung be able to appeal once the ads come out?
Re: Re:
That’s what I was wondering. If a UK court is forcing Apple to say the Samsung “didn’t copy,” then that seems like a pretty strong argument to use against Apple in other jurisdictions.
Can one court force you to perjure yourself in another?
Re: Re: Re:
Not a lawyer, but it seems dubious at best to think a legal ruling in one country’s court would carry any weight to another, separate country’s court when talking about precedent. It may be useable as supporting evidence though.
To be fair...
I do recall Apple publically stating that Samsung “stole” their design. The UK has pretty strict defamation laws, and I would guess that Apple will run afoul of those laws unless they offer an apology in the form of free advertising.
Re: To be fair...
UK laws involving Deframation aside, the judge may have made his ruling to prevent charges of Deframation in favor of Apple by declaring the iPad a much cooler device.
This May Lead To Innovation...
I believe this ruling may lead Apple to invent the smallest legible font known to mankind.
Re: This May Lead To Innovation...
Well, if by ‘invent’, you mean ‘copy and repackage previous ideas of competitors’, you might be right.
Re: This May Lead To Innovation...
You would still be able to see that font under a magnifying glass with their Retina Display =P
Re: This May Lead To Innovation...
i believe the current record is 2 and 1/3 by 3 pixels(subpixel redering) but could be 3 and 2/3 by 4
i dont think they will ever do so, its a strain on the eyes
apple oh apple
I wonder if this has anything to do with them using the judge’s comment about the samsung not being as good as the apple in all of there advertising , or comments all over the internet…but then he is probably doing it for reasonable reasons like teaching apple a lesson in why not to bring stupid charges and trying to destroy a businesses name by taking them into every court in the world. This should slow that down a little i think. well especially in the UK.
I own a Samsung fridge a Samsung tv a 3 x Samsung laptops a Samsung camera, and to be honest i really like them all, not because they are Samsung, but because they have more functions than other manufacturers and have proven themselves to be more reliable, oh and if i have a problem customer service is not bad at all, not that i have had to use them much but hey that’s Samsung.
Droid
Once again, Android fanboys spout off against Apple totally ignoring the article and the fact the ruling had absolutely nothing to do with patents but design. But ok, go ahead and scream in about how “evil” a huge corporation like Apple is without turning a cheek towards Google whose work has been far more shady and has a tendancy to sue people for using their FRAND patents. Not to mention never keeping on subject and always defending against Apple not even knowing how an iOS device works, never used one in their lifetime and never will because they fear simplicity and originality and large crowds. You Android Robot Fanboys fail to recognize that you are conformists yourselves for using the SAME phone OS with the SAME FEATURES each version for a multitude of devices. The only choice you have is what hardware to choose so be grateful and shut up.
Now that my rant is over:
I can see why Samsung wants to appeal now. The Judge ordered Apple to make ads actually stating that the Samsung Galaxy isn’t as cool. Note that he ordered it to be ADVERTISED on Apple’s website along with an equally absurd ruling to advertise that no phone designs infringe on Apple’s website ..which to my knowledge has virtually no advertising on it except the information they spout out about their new or “improved” products.
Now with that Phone Design bit. I suggest you look up iPhone 5 China. It is a knockoff iPhone 3GS made in China.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSO1KWLGd50
Re: Droid
SAMSUNG is appealing????? Eh?
Re: Re: Droid
Your argument is invalid. You are being grammar police to my Android phone, not me. When you have something relavent to argue come back and call me out.
Re: Re: Re: Droid
I’m confused, are Samsung appealing or not?
Re: Re: Re:2 Droid
Not according to that judge they aren’t very appealing. For those who don’t speak American, appeal is a word with two different meanings. Repeal, so he made a small error in grammar. No big deal.
Re: Re: Re:3 Droid
Do you have two usernames or is the techdirt commenting system messed up? Sock puppets are bad form.
Also, Sad Mac said that Samsung is appealing the ruling. That’s not a grammatical error at all. It might be a mistake, but it doesn’t read like one.
Re: Re: Re:4 Droid
Thank you dude. That is in fact the ‘error’ i was pointing out. Why the hell would samsung appeal?
Re: Re: Re:4 Droid
If you follow the snowflakes it looks as though Wally turned to Sad Mac (same snowflake) then there was a different snowflake Wally but appears to be the same person…since his first response as new snowflake was claiming the Sad Mac comment…further down the thread he spoke of Sad Mac in 3rd person. Don’t know what he’s trying to pull here.
Re: Re: Re:3 Droid
So now they’re ‘Repealing’, what are they repealing again?
Just for those of us that don’t speak ‘American’?
Re: Droid
Umadbro?
Apple fanboy much?
Re: Re: Droid
Read the last few sentances of my rant you will notice that I stated you should be grateful to have a wider variety in hardware. Furthermore, you completely ignored my after rant where I actually agree to Samsung going to a court of appeals. Although I enjoy your effort in making a trolling Strawman argument, I think if you had anything better say Ninja, then you would, but you apparently don’t have that ability.
Re: Re: Re: Droid
Hey idude, how about asnwering to comments 31, 32 instead?
Or do they make you weak in the ifaith.
Re: Re: Re:2 Droid
Dont get me started on the iSheep.
Re: Re: Re:2 Droid
Maybe you should read these comments in Threaded mode…it makes a helluva lot more sense.
Re: Droid
The patents that they were citing included ones had to do with the design…
Re: Re: Droid
Thank you for the valid correction 🙂
Re: Droid
“Once again, Android fanboys spout off against Apple totally ignoring the article and the fact the ruling had absolutely nothing to do with patents but design.”
In other filings, Apple has flat out stated that Samsung copied the iPad’s design. Stating that people, without knowing which was which, would quite readily believe the Samsung offering to be the iPad. What is that besides stating it looks the same? And thus, by default means, the design is the same.
Also, in point of fact, there have been articles written on numerous sites (including this one) where people have broken down Apple’s filings against Samsung and they boil down to “the design is the same as ours!!!” (I’ll be sure to link to some of these articles when I have the chance.
“Not to mention never keeping on subject and always defending against Apple not even knowing how an iOS device works, never used one in their lifetime and never will because they fear simplicity and originality and large crowds.”
I’m staying on subject for the most part, minus replies to you and Wally. I own and have used iOS devices. In fact, the boss at the engineering company I work for is a huge Apple fan (and has stock in the company) so his personal devices (and company provided cell phones) are all Apple devices. I know how all iOS devices work. I’ve used them and have owned several. Oh, also, Android OS has simplicity and tons of originality. Or would you like me to list the things Apple has “innovated” after they were available for years on Android? Without going off, the ability to copy/paste and notifications alone are easily two of the big ones (that were fawned over by Apple supporters/fanboys).
“You Android Robot Fanboys fail to recognize that you are conformists yourselves for using the SAME phone OS with the SAME FEATURES each version for a multitude of devices.”
Well, way to go with the ad hom/fanboy insult. Real class act there, I see you are an Apple fan to the fullest. (It’s worth noting Apple has to take cheap shots at their yearly meeting/unveiling, meanwhile Google doesn’t resort to such low class behavior at all. Instead focusing on their products and innovations without the need to insult other manufacturers.) If by SAME phone OS you mean Android, then yes they are the same. However, Eclair (2.1) is nothing like Froyo (2.2) is nothing like Gingerbread (2.3) is nothing like Honeycomb (3.1) is nothing like Ice Cream Sandwich (4.0) which is absolutely nothing like Jelly Bean (4.1). The differences between each as they move forward are huge (and only overlooked by people such as yourself who may have never tried the various Android OSes). As for same features, again obviously you’re speaking from lack of experience. The features over time have radically evolved and changed. Or do you believe Google Now/Google Ears (and that’s just listing two of the big ones) available in Jelly Bean are also built in to, oh let’s say, Gingerbread? They aren’t, fyi. The core features are the same, but they are built upon over time. That is true, but that’s not what you just stated though.
“The only choice you have is what hardware to choose so be grateful and shut up.”
No, that is not the only choice available. The hardware is of course a choice, but there is also a choice in operating system (do you want Gingerbread when Ice Cream Sandwich is also available), as well as manufacturer skins (do you want stock Android or do you want Sense or Touchwiz or Blur over it). Nice “shut up” though. You just basically dictated Apple’s policy. This is what we are ALLOWING you to have, shut up and like it or fuck off. Not a fan of real honesty/debate are you? That much is also obvious by the “shut up” bit.
“Now that my rant is over”
Yeah, that’s exactly what it was. A rant. With no basis in reality whatsoever and definitely nothing based on fact, just opinion and bias and flat out misinformation.
Too bad, because I just ripped apart your rant on a point by point basis.
“I can see why Samsung wants to appeal now. The Judge ordered Apple to make ads actually stating that the Samsung Galaxy isn’t as cool. Note that he ordered it to be ADVERTISED on Apple’s website along with an equally absurd ruling to advertise that no phone designs infringe on Apple’s website ..which to my knowledge has virtually no advertising on it except the information they spout out about their new or “improved” products.”
Actually, if you read this and other articles on the matter you’ll KNOW that Apple has to quite clearly state that Samsung did not steal the design of the iPad. Not state that the Galaxy Tab “isn’t as cool”. There’s a big difference, but one I know you obviously interpreted incorrectly.
Also, no sh*t Apple has no advertising on it. It’s their own site, why would they advertise on their own site? That makes no sense. However, the information/photos of their own products is very much advertising. So in effect, they do have advertising on their website, just advertising that is only about Apple.
Now, would you like to respond or should we just drop all this here? I have no problem going on but I’m trying to be nice and give you and Wally outs.
No brainer
It is the perception of Samsungs dishonesty, in that they copied someone elses design, that is damaging to the company, surely that’s obvious.
Re: No brainer
wow, I’m gonna make the same comment twice..
Umadbro?
Re: Re: No brainer
Ninja, to prevent you from injuring yourself (your brain particularly), I want you to know I hate OSX, I run a Windows Vista Dell Studio 45B, and I actuall OWN an Android phone. My phone makes my calls, I do not need a data plan. I use my iPod Touch for e-mails and entertainment that’s all. So before you taint the discussion with your sub-troll thinking level, make sure you read carefully.
Re: Re: No brainer
Do you have the brain power to say anything relavent to rebuttal Sad Mac’s statement? Or do you have the brain of a two year old?….wait…. I take that back, my two year old is smarter than you Ninja.
Re: Re: Re: No brainer
You should watch what you say. You’ve yet to say anything to retract your previously incorrect statement about Google making things more difficult to root/ROM phones. Nor have you said anything in rebuttal to my comments.
Also, to further add to it, you’ve yet to correct or retract any of your PROVEN false statements you’ve made in other Apple/Android articles. I know because I’ve personally corrected you a number of times on a number of incorrect/misinformed things you’ve stated.
Basically, don’t be a hypocrite and ask for something from others you aren’t prepared to do yourself.
Re: Re: Re: No brainer
Wally/Sad Mac you do realize the little snowflake next to your name identifies your comments as coming from the same IP address. Not that it means you are necessarily the same person but it seems a little shady especially when you probably think you are fooling everybody.
Re: Re: Re:2 No brainer
You know, the interesting thing is this has happened before in other Apple articles. What’s interesting though is that in some of those, Sad Mac/Wally have been one and the same. As in, a commented directed to Sad Mac has been responded to by Wally and vice versa. Almost as if you directed the comment to the same person and they responded in turn (just using a different name altogether).
Now, could it be pure chance? Sure. Could it be that they are both on the same IP address? Sure. But is it completely believable that they by mere coincidence both are and are both replying in the same manner? Not even remotely.
And you know what, in further reading Sad Mac’s response to Ninja where he states he doesn’t need data on his phone just the ability to make calls… if you go back and read some of Wally’s comments in reply to myself in other articles, you’ll see he states the same exact thing (not that I had to read those comments again, I tend to remember people trying to go “aha! but I’m not a fanboy” and what they say to “defend” themselves not being one, Wally stating he owned an Android phone that somehow magically sucked and thus all other Android phones had to suck just like his by default, or something along those lines).
Re: No brainer
Copied the design? The design being “a rectangle”.
Right, I forgot. Apple invented the rectangle.
On another note, I really can’t wait for them to “invent” NFC when they announce the iPhone 5. NFC, which I’ve being using since 2011 on my Galaxy Nexus.
Re: Re: No brainer
Whoa! I should have said allegedly copied. I’m on fucking samsungs side here you cocks!
Re: Re: Re: No brainer
The ‘company’ being Samsung.
Re: No brainer
I wonder if Apple and Samsung had the design as a part of their contract. That would be a perfectly valid reason to put in a lawsuit. If I recall, the issue was both patents and contractual obligations. Either way though, the judge’s ruling is rather strange.
Ad Concept
A guy getting his coffee in some coffee shop looking at the line of iSheep all with iPads in line at a coffee shop with the green logo…
The tagline: maybe not as cool, just better!
Re: Ad Concept
Same coffee shop?…that might explain why all the iSheep comments have the same snowflake?
ACS Law
Of course, Judge Birss was the man who sorted ACS Law out and their speculative invoicing scam. Sounds like my type of judge!