Police In Ferguson Back To Threatening And Arresting Reporters: Tells Them To 'Get The Fuck Out Of Here'
from the wonder-what-they-say-to-protestors dept
The situation in Ferguson seemed briefly like it was getting better last Thursday, but that didn’t last long. Over the weekend, the militarized and threatening police fired tear gas at protestors and continued to escalate the situation, rather than de-escalate it. The governor declared a state of emergency and instituted a curfew — which created some more problems, and resulted in continued protests, but also some looting. In the last few hours, however, things have gone from bad to worse again. Police went back to arresting journalists, including Robert Klemko from Sports Illustrated and Rob Crilly from the Telegraph (who, believe it or not, is the “Pakistan and Afghanistan correspondent” for that paper — now reporting live from… Ferguson, Missouri). While both were quickly released, police appear to be quite aggressive towards reporters. Chris Hayes, the MSNBC TV host reports that he was threatened with being maced:
Riot cop to me just a few minutes ago: "Get back! Or next time you're gonna be the one maced."
— Christopher Hayes (@chrislhayes) August 18, 2014
We are being told to leave the area and head back where we wouldn't be able to witness anything for ourselves.
— Ryan J. Reilly (@ryanjreilly) August 18, 2014
Biggest barrage of gas so far. Multiple flashbangs #Ferguson pic.twitter.com/EXJzmj3lKZ
— Jon Swaine (@jonswaine) August 18, 2014
The situation has become so ridiculous that Amnesty International has sent in a human rights team, saying this is the first time ever that the group has done so inside the US. Think about that for a minute or two…
The situation in #Ferguson has prompted us to send human rights teams. First time we've deployed inside the US. http://t.co/09HQClqy76
— Amnesty New Zealand (@AmnestyNZ) August 18, 2014
And then recognize that the press are almost certainly being treated significantly better than the residents who are protesting.
Filed Under: ferguson, first amendment, free speech, michael brown, militarized police, missouri, police, police brutality, reporters
Comments on “Police In Ferguson Back To Threatening And Arresting Reporters: Tells Them To 'Get The Fuck Out Of Here'”
That didn't last long
‘All of this really ought to make people wonder: if this is how the police act when they know the world is watching them and live streaming what they’re doing, how do you think they act when no one is watching?’
They know, they just don’t care.
After all, so far no-one with the power to do so is interested in holding them accountable for their actions or reigning them in. At most, once the dust and tear-gas has settled, a few wrists may get slapped, and a few of the more obvious offenders captured on film may be put on paid leave for a week or two, nothing more, so why should they care if the world is watching?
‘We are being told to leave the area and head back where we wouldn’t be able to witness anything for ourselves.’
This line cannot get enough attention. ‘where we wouldn’t be able to witness anything for ourselves.
It’s pretty obvious that as bad as things are already, they would be massively, enormously worse if the ‘cops’ in that area didn’t have reporters, both official and unofficial, covering their actions.
If they didn’t have to worry about what they were doing going public, and they could make up whatever they felt like it without any potential video evidence to the contrary, if things are this bad already, I shudder to think of how bad they would be then.
Quite clearly, the police are doing everything they can to drive out any reporters(you can only have so many ‘accidentally’ arrested reporters before the flimsy excuse is expose as such), anyone who could provide evidence contrary to what the police claim is happening, and that by itself is seriously worrying, since it implies pretty heavily they know that their actions are overboard, and yet rather than scale back those actions, they merely want to get rid of any ‘pesky’ oversight and contrary reports on what’s happening, and continue on, same as before.
Re: That didn't last long
Obama should have sent the National Guard and FBI in by this point to put the smackdown on the Ferguson creeps and I do not mean just the rioters.
The police are also out of control in that town and need to be given a wakeup call that “We are a land of laws. Those laws apply to you bastards as much as anyone else. DEAL WITH IT!”
My conservative West Virginia relatives who are racist have been horrified by what is going on in Ferguson.
Re: Re: That didn't last long
Something like that is actually what I’m worried might happen.
‘The governor declared a state of emergency‘
Under a state of emergency, I believe that the governor can call for national guard troops to come and ‘restore order’, and while I’d like to hope they’d be fair and equal in their treatment of both cops and protestors, more interested in getting both sides to calm down than cracking skulls and ‘making examples’, I wouldn’t bet on it.
If the governor, and other high ranking officials really believed the cops were going overboard here, they would have stepped in a while back and done something about the situation, even if it was only publicly condemning the actions of the police, and calling for them to stop. The fact that they haven’t, does not bode well, as it implies not condemnation, but approval or indifference, even if they never say so out loud.
Re: Re: Re: That didn't last long
Well looks like national guard are on their way in: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28832462
Re: Re: Re:2 That didn't last long
And the really screwed up part? You’d be hard pressed to tell the difference between the cops and the military, given they both brought the same, or similar, gear.
Now to hope the military are less eager to use their ‘toys’ than the police I guess.
Re: Re: Re:3 That didn't last long
Precisely what I was going to say. The problem we have here is the fact that the police and the army have effectively become one. What’s the solution? Why, send in more soldiers!
Re: Re: Re:3 That didn't last long
According to service members who served in Iraq, the police have more and better equipment than they did.
Re: Re: Re:2 That didn't last long
I hope the National Guard has better luck at dispersing the police than the protesters have had.
Re: Re: That didn't last long
Agreed on the need for federal intervention. Take the whole thing out of local control and then hold EVERYONE accountable, as in jail time for ALL the guilty. Looters: jail. Rogue cops: jail.
If the Police Unions bitch, disband them.
Re: Re: Re: That didn't last long
Negative, the police force have been committing acts of treason during “war-time”, so they just need to be lined up and executed by the Marines.
Re: Re: Re:2 That didn't last long
Negative, the police force have been committing acts of treason during “war-time”,
Because “treason” means “doing bad things I don’t like”.
Re: Re: That didn't last long
minor correction:
1) The FBI has been instigating since last week
2) Sending in the National guard is under the auspices of the state governor not the POTUS.
Re: Re: Re: That didn't last long
1) I think you mean investigating
2) POTUS can federalize the Guard, as was done in the sixties
Re: Re: Re:2 That didn't last long
Thought I turned auto correct off :/
Re: Re: Re:2 That didn't last long
It is a pretty bad sign that we had to check if instigating vs investigating was meant. Considering that the FBI is a large organization they could be doing both.
Re: Re: That didn't last long
To start with, Obama CAN’T send in the national guard. That requires a request from the state government, not the federal government.
Secondly, the National Guard is a military force, not a police force. They are neither trained, nor equipped to handle civil protests. Most of the protests can be traced to the local police using military tactics to solve a civil problem, the National Guard wouldn’t change anything.
Re: Re: Re: That didn't last long
The POTUS can send in the National Guard. It was done during desegregation.
Re: Re: Re:2 That didn't last long
Against the state governor’s will too, if I recall
Re: Re: That didn't last long
Just pointing out… Obama doesn’t control the national guard. The national guard is under the jurisdiction of the states. It’s the governor’s call as to whether they get sent in or not.
Re: Re: Re: That didn't last long
http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/0925.html
Re: Re: That didn't last long
Obama should have sent the National Guard and FBI in by this point to put the smackdown on the Ferguson creeps and I do not mean just the rioters.
The police are also out of control in that town and need to be given a wakeup call that “We are a land of laws. Those laws apply to you bastards as much as anyone else. DEAL WITH IT!”
You’re missing one thing; This is exactly how the government wants local police to deal with civil unrest. Why else do you thing the government has been throwing money and surplus military hardware at local police departments?
It’s specifically for putting down civil unrest. When this country reaches the tipping point and the people revolt, the government wants its new domestic army, AKA local police forces, to be able to handle large scale protests. And by “handle” I mean, to squash any dissent and teach the lowly peons their place in the dirt.
Re: Re: That didn't last long
Re: That didn't last long
agree with your take, but am unable to prevent myself from pointing out ‘reign’ vs ‘rein’…
our superiors and donut eaters may reign over us, but -like runaway horses- they need to be reined in…
not that i want to rain on your homophone parade…
hhh
Re: That didn't last long
That was a bit of a contradiction. “Why should they care if the world is watching?” followed by “If things are this bad already, I shudder to think of how bad they would be [if they didn’t have to worry about what they were doing going public].”
I think your first point just needs to be modified to say their level of abusive behavior corresponds with how little accountability they have. With all the people going on about doing “whatever it takes” to keep [white] people safe, accountability for anything less than mass murder is minimal, even with all eyes on them.
Impassioned Whatever defence in 5, 4, 3…
Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Aug 18th, 2014 @ 12:29am
that added so much to the discussion
Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Aug 18th, 2014 @ 12:29am
Just like his usual blithering apologist nonsense?
Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Aug 18th, 2014 @ 12:29am
Just like you!
Why hasn’t anybody blamed video games yet?
Re: Re:
Because no one realizes that Battlefield: Hardline is a thing yet, outside of the gaming community?
Quick question by a foreigner to any US attorneys who have half an unbillable second 😉
Whats the legality of ‘curfews’ imposed on a whole town(ship) within any American State? If the curfew is legal what elements are actually needed to create it as a legal order and has that criteria been met in this instance? or is it an untested area of Constitutional (State or Federal) law that is highly ambiguous?
Re: Re:
IANAL, but can answer a portion of your question.
The curfew doesn’t appear to cover the entire town (that actually isn’t clear; I’m not even sure if the media know what the boundaries for the curfew are). It seems to be mainly the street most of the protests have been going on, which I think is the street the original shooting that kicked this off happened. They protesters have taken to gathering at the burned down QuickTrip that some looters totaled earlier in the rioting.
It certainly doesn’t cover the next town over’s border, where a convenience mart was looted by armed looters (there was evidence of gunfire at the building). The 1st night of the curfew, there was an attempt to organize a march to that border, had the cops forced everyone to disperse due to the curfew, but it never materialized (though, 40 or so mins. into the curfew, the cops did start forcing people out, ultimately w/ tear gas, which the Police had promised not to use).
But one of the necessary criteria appears to be the Governor declaring a State of Emergency, which he has.
Re: Re: Re:
The problem here is how screwed up the towns are. Seriously, go to Google Maps, type in ‘Ferguson, MO’ and then follow the red dashed line to see the border. Now just how do you enforce a curfew in that?
As to the adjacent towns, lets see, Dellwood and Jennings both rely on St Louis County who’s helping out in Ferguson, Berkley last i heard was struggling to afford a PD, Kinloch kinda has a PD, and Cool Valley’s policing is done by Normandy. If this expands outside of Ferguson, its going to get real ugly.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
The funny shape is no doubt due to the way our politicians finagle town boundaries as a means to disenfranchise voters. The scheme is to “saturate” a town with voters who are known to be likely to vote one way, so that those voters cannot have an affect outside the “ghetto”. Check out some of the bizarre setups in other polarized states such as North Carolina.
Coincidentally these funny shaped areas are primarily black, draw you own conclusions.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Here the story i suspect is much more pedestrian and prolly silly. Just look at the fact that we have 90 towns (well, incorporated municipalities) and 45 villages in a 524sq mile area (including the water). Many of those towns started as farms, and many survive because people don’t want to give up their town, despite rampant corruption (look up Kinloch for a great example, Jennings has its own history off the top of my head).
Re: Re:
If the curfew is being imposed to silence speech. It’s unconstitutional.
Re: Re: Re:
ISTM that free assembly would also be an issue.
Re: law and order... Or lawn odor
They (those with the means to do so) pass laws non-stop, but exempt themselves (and cronies) from compliance. Always been so. A chronic, persistent, criminal activity… Done in the name of (insert noun du jour).
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Dw-2Vk_W6VgJ:www.fergusoncity.com/171/Council-Members&strip=1
The police in America are organized into Unions which have massive amounts of local political power. Essentially, local politicians in most areas can NOT be elected if they are opposed by the police union.
This is the core of the problem. It’s what makes the police an armed and organized gang. The average cop has far more loyalty to his union, his chain of command and his fellows than he does to the public or to the law. He only feels accountable to other cops, not to civilian officials.
Police know that they will not be held accountable for their actions because local civil authorities are too scared to cross the police union. Until police unions are banned and police become answerable to control by elected civilian officials nothing will change.
After a private autopsy it was concluded that the kid was shot at least 6 times, 2 times in the head and what seems to be the last shot hit the top of his head in a way suggesting his position as foreward leaning with front towards the shooter. Nothing conclusive but the excess of shots and the way the last bullet hit seems to indicate an uncontrolled state of mind from the cop (panick, rage etc.).
The situation in a town where 70% of the population is “black” and 96% of the cops are “white” is inevitably going to incur suspicion of racism when something like this happens. I just hope the truth about the motives from the cop will be made clear as to avoid the racism card. So far the cops statements seem questionable at best.
Re: Re:
Not only that, but the BBC article linked to above says that, due to the lack of gunpowder on his body, he was shot from a distance.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/18/us-usa-missouri-shooting-idUSKBN0GF0LP20140818
This is why police need to wear bodycameras
ALL police need to wear bodycameras. This proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that police need to wear body cameras for the safety of law abiding citizens doing their jobs just so they can make it home safe from a day of work. Any officer who argues against bodycameras is not someone I want in the police let alone in my country.
Re: This is why police need to wear bodycameras
We’re talking about a department that didn’t even issue the dashcams they had.
Re: Re: This is why police need to wear bodycameras
Well of course, why go through all the hassle of deleting any ‘inconvenient’ video evidence if you can just not record it in the first place?
Re: This is why police need to wear bodycameras
That sounds great.
But this is a podunk little PD.
I work IT for one of the 50 biggest cities in the US and WE can’t afford the hardware(cameras, infrastructure, and training) for all our officers to go with all the in car cameras(which are mandated by the state here) and other items. We simply don’t have it in our budget.
So until we get our federal government to stop spending billions on building ICBMs and failed F35s and start investing into us, it will never happen across the nation.
Re: Re: This is why police need to wear bodycameras
‘Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson told KSDK-TV that there’s no video footage of the shooting from the apartment complex or from any police cruiser dashboard cameras or body-worn cameras that the department recently bought but has not yet put to use.‘
They have the gear, they just haven’t put any of it into use. Now, if, as you say, it’s a matter of the budget not being big enough, then I’d expect other areas to be equally tight, yet they seem to have no trouble equipping their officers with military level gear, if the pictures are anything to go off of.
Re: Re: Re: This is why police need to wear bodycameras
Keep in mind that thanks to the 1033 program, the military gear is free or heavily discounted.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matthew-harwood/to-terrify-and-occupy_b_5678072.html
Re: Re: Re:2 This is why police need to wear bodycameras
Do you have any idea how expensive it is for a lapel cam mount that will work on riot gear?
The dash cam mount for an armored vehicle is TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars – just think, you need add a dash first!
How can we expect our local police departments be able to get this equipment on their tiny budgets?
Re: Re: Re:3 This is why police need to wear bodycameras
The problem with this is that the Ferguson PD HAS the equipment – it just hasn’t been using it.
The budget isn’t the problem in this case. It’s the implementation.
Re: Re: Re:4 This is why police need to wear bodycameras
That was a joke. I was implying that while they have the cameras, they do not have the appropriate mounts to put them on their riot gear and armored vehicles.
I figured saying they needed to add a dash to an armored vehicle for a dash cam to work made it unnecessary to add a sarcmark – my bad.
Re: Re: Re:3 This is why police need to wear bodycameras
Michael you are retarded – “dash” cam mounts for armored vehicles don’t cost tens of thousands of dollars… Besides the fact that most police cams mount to the windshield and the entire setup for each vehicle is under $2000, Armored H1s and Lenco Bearcats have traditional dashboards just like a crown vic does. MRAPs don’t have traditional “dashboards”, but they have a BUILT IN headliner bracket specifically meant for mounting comms and video. And for vehicles like Bradley Fighting Vehicles or a Boston Whaler boat that don’t have a windshield, they have external mounts that are just a few hundred dollars…
Re: Re: This is why police need to wear bodycameras
How much of that budget is reserved for fighting and settling police brutality cases? Part of that budget could most probably be used to get the body cameras.
Re: Re: Re: This is why police need to wear bodycameras
They already own the body cameras. They just choose not to use them.
Re: This is why police need to wear bodycameras
I completely agree. While on duty in their roles as law enforcement officers, they should be recording to ensure both the citizens and themselves are following established laws.
Obviously, the recording in private residences is an issue to deal with as a result, but in “public areas”, there is no expectation of privacy for citizens and police officers. If they can’t perform their duties under said recording, they need to be removed.
Re: This is why police need to wear bodycameras
“ALL police need to wear bodycameras.”
This would nix any ‘he said/she said’ arguments, in which the cops word has always been assumed to be correct, regardless of anything else. Taking away that assumption, means 1) they accept they cant be trusted, and 2) they cant just do what they want anymore.
No one in their right mind, who abuses their power would EVER want this..
Re: Re: This is why police need to wear bodycameras
This would nix any ‘he said/she said’ arguments
Actually there was a court that decided to take a police officer’s word over contradictory video evidence, so it wouldn’t necessarily.
Re: Re: Re: This is why police need to wear bodycameras
How did that survive an appeal?
Re: This is why police need to wear bodycameras
Why do the police ever need to ever use lethal force? Arm them with tranquilizer guns or something designed to subdue not kill. This isn’t the wild wild west.
Re: This is why police need to wear bodycameras
Hey, even freaking Robocop, who would shoot people in the nuts or throw them from the top floor of Skyscrapers, would glady use a inbuilt, always turned on camera.
Oh, now i get it, that’s why OCP thought the public would like the idea.
Re: This is why police need to wear bodycameras
I’ve been saying this forever , I think Politicians and all public officials should be wearing body Cams (with audio) as well , I mean if they are doing anything wrong then they don’t have anything to worry about .. right.
Re: Re: This is why police need to wear bodycameras
(aren’t)
There’s been plenty of arrests in Ferguson over the last few days. The individual who shot an unarmed teenager six times, execution style, wasn’t one of them though.
Re: Re:
police are treated as above the laws they are supposed to know and enforce. murder someone oh that’s paid time off because police never do anything wrong apparently.
2 tiered justice system in this country
How far have you fallen America. Human Rights watch teams being sent to your own territory. Not that you care, right? Are we gonna put down the mask already and show our true totalitarian intentions?
Re: Re:
Not to belittle the current situation, but as far as human right violations go, this ‘little scuffle’ is pretty far down the list as far as ‘Actions committed by, or in, the US the past decade’ go.
Re: Re: Re:
This is a sad, but true, statement.
Re: Re: Re:
Indeed but the highlight here is that it’s being committed against Americans themselves.
Re: Re: Re:
Yes but they attacked the media, they just like any other group that suppresses the truth have to stick together, It’s a wake up call.
Re: Re:
They have no access to government buildings or they would get to see a lot more action.
consider that what is happening now isn’t because of the youth being shot but because the police are doing anything they can possibly think of to do to taint that youth! why the hell would someone who has never been arrested (so i read), never been in trouble, throw all that away for the sake of stealing a box of cigars? why would he then run away, only to stop, hands in the air, away from the police and allow himself to be shot numerous times, when he could have carried on running, just to protect himself?
this is nothing other than a complete police cover up and now they have rubbed salt into the wound by accusing him of stealing some cigars, they are wondering why there is all this upheaval and are trying to prevent it being reported. whoever is in charge from the police side need to consider carefully what is going on, why, and the seriousness of the action being taken.
what i see here though is real good evidence of what the USA is becoming. a nation where authority in the form of police or other security forces will do whatever they want, how they want and anyone disagreeing or standing against them will suffer the consequences. the question to ask, however, is who is behind this? it’s not just in one area, it’s all over the USA, so someone has gotten all these security heads together and brainwashed them or ensured that those of like attitude are employed in all areas. frightening!!
Re: Re:
That was pretty clear when the 18 page report has only one page devoted to the shooting, and they released the video in defiance of a DOJ request not to release it.
There is a huge difference in calling the National Guard to assist the police versus calling them to replace the police. These demonstrations are a result of the Public’s loss of faith in the legitimacy of authority. To restore it they need to address the abuses of power, not just reinforce the “shut up and go home” policy.
Re: Re:
True. Now, does anyone here actually believe or expect that they were called in for the former, rather than the latter?
Re: Re:
The national guard should have been called in to disperse the police and their “unlawful” assembly. The “unlawful” assembly part is what they always argue to disperse protesters. I do believe that based on the first amendment, there is no such thing as an “unlawful” assembly.
The really story?
So, I see alot of outrage, but very few people reporting facts.
If you read the minor reports and the less controlled news – ACTUAL NEWS, NOT WANNABES – you read that most of the local “protestors” are peaceful.
What’s happening now is nothing more than an excuse to loot and run amok by people OUTSIDE the community. This isn’t about the shooting, it’s about people wanting to get free stuff and just incite more tension.
Don’t believe me? Ask yourself these questions:
1) How are the victim or the victim’s family helped by looting?
2) If the intent of the protests are peaceful, why protest at night and not during the day – especially on a weekend?
3) How is the victim or his family helped by throwing rocks, moltov cocktails or shooting at the police?
As far as the actual shooting – I’ve a few “opinions” from I’m guessing people who have only seen firearms in the movies.
There is a tap that was released that caught a conversation between two people basically saying that the guy (297 lbs) kept coming after the cop fired.
Now, if I’m a cop and I just shot someone once and he kept coming… twice and he kept coming… then squeezed off two more shots and he kept coming (4 shots to the right side), I’m switching focus and aiming for the head. Now I fire a shot that hits him in the face and he starts to fall forward, but that could easily be mistaken for a lunge forward and so I fire one more shot… the one that hits him in the top of the head because he’s leaning forward.
You see no shots to the back or the back of the head. Remember… this is a 297 guy who kept coming after multiple shots.
Re: The really story?
Well, also keep in mind that there were no shots from close up. It does not really matter much which direction the target turned and how long he took before collapsing when being executed from a distance.
Re: The really story?
You see no shots to the back or the back of the head. Remember… this is a 297 guy who kept coming after multiple shots.
First of all, I’d be interested to know just who is talking during that ‘tape’, and how much their discussion matches any available evidence, otherwise it’s little more than hearsay.
Yeah, unless they are ‘walking pharmacy’-level filled with drugs, something that would have been mentioned by now, a person is not going to continue running at someone shooting at them from a distance.
Also, as for the ‘lunge’ to explain the second, higher head shot, the autopsy found no gunpowder residue on the body, so even for the last shot he was still at range, making any ‘lunge’ completely harmless to the shooter.
Re: The really story?
I don’t think a person would keep coming after taking several shots. The question is how it holds up with the cops statement that the kid wrestled him for the gun. Not very well actually. The release of the potential store robbery is complete bull with the police admitting the cop didn’t know about it at that time. I am having a hard time giving them that much more credibility after they have shown to make as questionable statements as they have.
Re: The really story?
Faced with multiple accounts of what transpired, many people pick the one that most fits their predetermined bias. Little regard is given for conflicting reports, quantity of cooperating reports, or evidence which discounts the chosen conclusion. But do continue – please.
Re: The really story?
It’s possible there is some truth to the idea that some of the incitement is coming from outside the area.
However, the questions posed prove nothing. In the case of the question about “protesting at night”, well, most of the people work or have other commitments during the day; their free time is at night, like everyone else’s. Not only that, but darkness covers movement, so sneaking around is best done at night.
The other two questions describe criminality in general; one of the fundamental constants of criminality is lack of wisdom. Consider: A man is poor, so he robs a bank; then he gets caught, the money gets taken back; and now he’s still poor and in prison for the next 25 years. How did robbing the bank improve his situation?
People, particularly people in mobs, frequently don’t think things all the way through to the aftermath. Intelligence says, “I’m poor. If I rob the bank, then I’ll have money.” A yields B. Wisdom says, now think beyond that: What is the aftermath? A yields B, but A will also yield other consequences?
In general, criminals and mobs have some moderate intelligence but zero wisdom.
So to answer the questions:
1) How are the victim or the victim’s family helped by looting? Looting seems like a good idea at the time: “I want a color TV. There’s a color TV. The police are busy elsewhere. So I can take the TV and then I’ll have a TV.” No one thinks ahead to what it will mean to the community and their own family to loot a color TV. It’s not like they dare have the TV set up and operating; or that they dare to sell it…should wisdom take hold, they’ll probably wind up tossing their “prize” in the river.
2) If the intent of the protests are peaceful, why protest at night and not during the day – especially on a weekend? Daytime has other commitments; night is best for sneaking around. I concede these reasons apply equally to outsiders, but these do not prove outsiders.
3) How is the victim or his family helped by throwing rocks, moltov cocktails or shooting at the police? Dealing with the police is now; “We can beat these idiots.” Same reasoning as any war: No one is thinking ahead to the aftermath. Mobs use some limited intelligence to win now; have zero wisdom.
All of this, of course, is why mobs and rioting are so dangerous.
Re: The really story?
That’s not the point dude… the point is the militarized police action to suppress a community. How can you be a week into this story and not understand that? It doesn’t matter if the victim turns out to be a serial killer.
Re: The really story?
How is the victim or his family helped by throwing rocks, moltov cocktails or shooting at the police?
Talking from experience once the cops start shooting even when you (collectively speaking) raise your hands and clearly shout it’s a peaceful movement then people will get angry and start reacting. I don’t know exactly what is happening there but even the most peaceful crowd will defend themselves when threatened like this.
The looters are mere opportunistic people. Much like other pathogens use the immunodeficiency AIDS causes to actually cause the death those people are just using the opportunity to their advantage and they would do the same if any other fact gave them enough room. The police should be going after these people, not the protesters. Again from my experience if the police doesn’t escalate the violence even those within the protest will help catching the looters.
If the intent of the protests are peaceful, why protest at night and not during the day – especially on a weekend?
Work. You can lose your job if you simply don’t show. Weekends are a good option indeed but you can’t just wait for the weekend till things have settled down, there’s a momentum to be seized and used. Also, a good time to protest is when it causes most disruption to daily life such as when people get out of work. Makes things be noticed. You can’t count on the mainstream media to help you here so you need to catch the attention somehow. I wonder if what you are calling night is actually the evening when people are leaving their jobs.
Re: The really story?
As there have been attempts to impose a curfew, I support protesting in the curfew hours as a matter of general principle, independently of the original subject of the protest.
Re: Re: The really story?
Me too. The right of the people to peaceably assemble shall not be abridged.
Re: The really story?
You see no shots to the back or the back of the head. Remember… this is a 297 guy who kept coming after multiple shots.
Even if that’s true, how does that make this police response a good idea? The dead guy could have been an armed crazy person on a murderous rampage and this would still not be the best way to respond to the protests.
Re: The really story?
This is funny, coming in the middle of an absolutely citation-free post. Care to link to some actual evidence?
I assuming you’re referring here to “conservative” outfits that are not part of the “Liberal Media Conspiracy?”
Re: The really story?
1) How are the victim or the victim’s family helped by looting?
It’s about being fed up , nothing ever gets done unless a business is hurt , then the powers that be rush in.
2) If the intent of the protests are peaceful, why protest at night and not during the day – especially on a weekend?
They protest all day and night maybe .
3) How is the victim or his family helped by throwing rocks, moltov cocktails or shooting at the police?
How are the police helping matters , would anything have happened had this not taken place or would it have been swept under the rug once again .
If he didn’t want to get maced, he shouldn’t have been resisting arrest, irrespective of whether or not he was under arrest. Pre-resisting is a serious safety issue!
When will the feds be arrested the Ferguson cops?
In all seriousness here, the major problem Ferguson is facing is the criminal activities of their police force.
At this point, they all need to be arrested, indicted with hundreds of counts of false arrest, excessive force, death threats, murder, assault, criminal negligence and treason.
Why treason you ask? They’re violating the constitutional rights of the people to peacefully assemble (which the people do until the cops come out and instigate the riots), violating the freedom of speech and free press.
Since they are doing it in a military fashion, it’s treason.
I’m so glad that we’re currently in what the President’s wife calls “wartime” so that these criminal officers will get their “just” punishment for the treason they are committing, death.
Re: When will the feds be arrested the Ferguson cops?
Why treason you ask? They’re violating the constitutional rights of the people to peacefully assemble (which the people do until the cops come out and instigate the riots), violating the freedom of speech and free press.
Why would the feds charge them for violating people’s constitutional rights when the feds do that one a daily basis, and our president 6thinks he can suspend people’s rights when it suits him?
That’s like asking a wolf to stop the fox from raiding the chicken coop.
Re: When will the feds be arrested the Ferguson cops?
“Why treason you ask? They’re violating the constitutional rights of the people to peacefully assemble (which the people do until the cops come out and instigate the riots), violating the freedom of speech and free press.”
That is not “treason” as defined by the Constitution.
Re: Re: When will the feds be arrested the Ferguson cops?
Perhaps we need to redefine treason then.
Re: Re: Re: When will the feds be arrested the Ferguson cops?
Give it a shot. It’ll need a Constitutional amendment. Personally, I would work against the idea. There’s an extremely good reason why treason is very limited in scope — it’s one of those catch-all types of crimes that can easily be used for purely political purposes.
Re: When will the feds be arrested the Ferguson cops?
I would point to Dostojevsky, but you seem to be just venting here, which is fine.
Treason is not reached here, but some racism charges would sting a lot too as the functions rely so heavily on trust.
But before we talk punishment, it would be good to see a fair judgement of what really happen. Even if the police officer robbed the kid of due process we as a society have to grant it to him. If for nothing else, to avoid escalation of vigilence.
someone's done this before..
A well worn strategy utilized by many regimes throughou history is to replace local enforcement with ones that are not ethnically/racially/socially invested in the local community.
Those forces are less likely to give a flying shit when pointing a rifle at a ‘fellow citizen’.
I know, it’s beaten to a bloody pulp, but this is a play from hilter’s playbook.
Re: someone's done this before..
Would this be considered an example of Gowdin’s Law?
Story Mode
“The bullets did not appear to have been shot from very close range because no gunpowder was present on his body. However, that determination could change if it turns out that there is gunshot residue on Mr. Brown’s clothing, to which Dr. Baden did not have access.” [Emphasis added].
The above quote is from this NYT article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0
Question:
The story from the police indicates that Mr. Brown was struggling for the officer’s gun, and that a shot went off inside the cruiser.
Shouldn’t they have found SOME gunpowder on Mr. Brown if this story is true? Granted, the examiner did not have access to the clothes, but the enclosed space of the inside of the car should lead to SOME gunpowder getting on his person, shouldn’t it?
Re: Story Mode
They should also had a cruiser with a bullet hole and/or fresh blood in it.
Re: Re: Story Mode
Someone is being less than truthful?
Say it isn’t so!
When the citizenry of a country decides to militarize their police, one can’t be surprised when the police decide to go to war against the citizenry.
The culmination of their government acting like petty dictators. They no longer feel a need to hide it, they can do it in the open. They have open contempt for the American citizen, they ignore the laws when it pertains to them, laws are for the serfs not the self perceived elites. They intimidate and/or assassinate anyone that confronts them about their criminal acts. They have been building up the police into a domestic army for the last several decades, with no accountability for their crimes, because they are police and whatnot.
Enjoy your dystopian tyrrannistic police state Amerika. We tried to warn you what was happening, but we got called crazy conspiracy theorists for saying America was turning into another tin pot dictatorship. Now you can openly enjoy your state sanctioned police brutality, the secret laws with secret courts and secret evidence the defence is never allowed to see. The laws passed that make it illegal to protest or dissent against those in charge. The NDDA where the government decides what defines a terrorist, coincidently distrusting your government makes you a terrorist these days.
You stopped being the land of the free on 9/11 much like how Germans lost their freedoms when the Reichstag burned down.
Re: Re:
Enjoy your dystopian tyrrannistic police state Amerika.
What’s with changing c’s to k’s? There’s a regular commenter who does it incessantly (kops, Amerika, korporations, etc) and I don’t understand what it’s supposed to convey.
Re: Re: Re:
Kafka’s “Amerika”
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Kafka’s “Amerika”
Apparently there was also a miniseries from 1987 called Amerika, about the aftermath of a Soviet takeover of the US.
Re: Re: Re:
It’s a meme meant to convery “Evil Empire”. To most red-necked Americans, Evil == Communism == Russia. Russian language has no letter ‘c’. For the hard consonant sound (like the ‘c’ in America), it uses the letter ‘k’ (or what looks like the letter ‘k’).
qed
Re: Re: Re: Re:
To most red-necked Americans, Evil == Communism == Russia. Russian language has no letter ‘c’. For the hard consonant sound (like the ‘c’ in America), it uses the letter ‘k’ (or what looks like the letter ‘k’).
I was afraid it might be that.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Yeah, it’s a bit like spelling “Microsoft” as “Micro$oft”. Just ignoring it is the best available option.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
I am not sure alluding to Russia as an improvement on the subject is warrented today. Things are pretty well locked down there aswell.
going, going, gone.
If you don’t fight for your Rights, then you don’t care when they’re gone.
It was only a matter of time before media got a smack in the face ,til they finally decide to do some actual reporting , Imagine if they would have pulled their heads out of the sand during the height of the occupy movement, sopa cispa the patriot act , i feel bad for the people of ferguson, and people all over the world that have had the main street media turn their back on them, time and time again.
It's funny
It’s all pretty funny here. The truth will likely never come out, and that isn’t just the police covering up.
The initial autopsy report came out, showing that the guy got shot 6 times. Oh, and it appears that the shots didn’t happen while running away, and that the “kill” shot was the last shot, not the first (ie, it wasn’t overkill or shooting someone already on the ground). Few want to talk about the idea that the situation isn’t quite as simple as initially reported.
I also tend to agree with many people who ask the questions about rioting and looting. I can understand protesting. I can understand a candlelight vigil. I can understand gatherings, I can understand angry words. I can’t understand rioting and looting.
What is really at issue here is that the “good citizens” of this area are not working to distance themselves from the violence. They keep showing up every night to egg it on, to encourage it, to create the situations that lead to police having to take action.
The media seems to have already made a “police be bad” choice of a story angle and that is the only one being covered. Why is nobody looking at the situation that creates a tolerance for looting, rioting, and such? The media doesn’t seem to want to address it, except as “police fired tear gas, then something got looted”. Looting is NOT a valid response to anything.
The one sided coverage of this story is amusing. It’s even more amusing to read a site like Techdirt and it’s readers clapping and approving as the one sided story is repeated for their enjoyment.
Fox News for all?
Re: It's funny
Expected an impassioned defense, and was not surprised.
Why do you even log in if this is the sort of shit you end up posting anyway?
Violence
Those protesting haven’t been without fault. Why wait until the middle of the night to get rowdy? Why continue to test the police. What part of looting is non-violent protest? The police tactics have been heavy handed, but there’s enough blame to go around.
Re: Violence
This conflation of the protestors and the looters is really getting old. They are not the same group of people, and I think they are being deliberately conflated in order to disparage the protestors.
This happens with pretty much every protest that the government dislikes. You’d think everyone would have caught on by now.
Re: Re: Violence
Even the State Troopers (not sure about the Ferguson cops) acknowledge the Looting is not being done by the Peaceful Protesters, but mostly outsiders taking advantage of the chaos.
The Troopers even say they can tell them apart. Why they don’t treat them differently, if they can tell the difference, is beyond me.
Re: Re: Violence
I heard some local residents/witnesses interviewed on the CBC — the looters and rioters/molotov throwers apparently were:
(a) not locals (it’s a relatively small community, and they mostly know each other, or at least can spot strangers), and
(b) weren’t even black (though some apparently were self-styled “Anarchists”.
silly people
Kid stales cigars, beats the shit out of a cop. Community can’t understand the cop protecting himself. Now that you burned down your homes and businesses I hope it stays that way forever. Like the once culturally rich 14th street corridor in Washington DC. still is 40 years after their riots.
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