The Ridiculous Rush To Try To Patent Pot

from the *sigh* dept

Over the years, we’ve had a whole bunch of posts demonstrating various industries where there is no direct intellectual property protection — and yet where we still find tremendous innovation and competition. These include things like the fashion industry (where you can’t copyright fashion designs), the restaurant industry and some others. In fact, a few years ago, a couple of law professors wrote an entire book highlighting competitive and innovative industries where there was a lack of intellectual property protection. And, yet, time and time again, we see people who show up in the areas where there’s lots of competition and lots of innovation, and insist that those industries need more intellectual property protection.

The latest such industry? Apparently the legalized weed industry.

As you’re probably aware, the US has been moving more and more towards legalizing marijuana, starting mostly with “medical marijuana” (and I use the quote marks there very deliberately), and increasingly opening it up for all kinds of recreational use (four states so far…). And, if you’ve paid any attention to the legalized pot business at all, you’d know that it’s (1) a huge business with (2) tons and tons of competition and (3) an incredible amount of innovation. Lots of pot growers are trying to come up with newer and better strains, and there’s a ton of other innovation going on concerning ways to ingest the stuff.

But the lawyers are descending… and they’re telling people they need to “protect” everything. The article linked above, in the SF Chronicle, is ridiculous on multiple levels. It zips back and forth between patents and trademarks, doing little to explain the (vast) difference between the two. It also presents an entirely one-sided story, insisting (totally incorrectly) that “venture capitalists” require intellectual property protection to invest:

Investors, particularly those coming from the tech world, ?are attuned to coming into a company and trying to secure as much intellectual property as they can quickly,? said Timothy Yim, the Startup Policy Lab?s director of data and privacy, who counsels cannabis-related startups.

?They want to make sure that you have as much of your intellectual property secured as possible? before the invest, said Kyndra Miller, an attorney whose San FranciscoCannabusiness Law practice specializes in weed clients, including Blake.

It’s true that there are some investors focused on “intellectual property,” but they tend not to be very good. Most of the top investors have no problem at all admitting that focusing on intellectual property is a mistake, because good venture capitalists are betting on upside. All intellectual property does is protect your downside risk most of the time. But the article just presents it as fact and keeps repeating the misleading message that locking down intellectual property is “necessary.”

?A year and a half ago, we started telling people to think about (intellectual property) because this is what?s coming down the line,? said Reggie Gaudino, vice president for scientific operations and director of intellectual property at Steep Hill Labs, a Berkeley cannabis analytics lab with operations in several states. ?Only in the last few months have people started to listen to what we had to say.?

Even worse, the article (again, ridiculously and misleadingly) insists that “open source” is somehow anti-business and a “kumbaya” concept, rather than a good business strategy:

?The reality is that most mature businesses have established the importance of intellectual property,? said Gaudino. ?But one of the first things I noticed (in the cannabis industry) is that none of growers and breeders wanted to discuss that. They?d say, ?No, we?re all open source,? and the whole cannabis kumbaya stuff. And I?d say, ?Let me know how that works out for you, because once this is legal, Big Pharma and Big Ag are going to come in here and grab whatever they can.??

The reality is that big businesses tend to focus on intellectual property because they stopped innovating, so rather than compete, they like to use the law to block competition. And tons of open source offerings are very much about real (big) businesses, and there’s no reason that shouldn’t be true in other fields as well.

There’s nothing wrong with folks in the industry trademarking their brand names and specific designs and such, but the idea that people should start to look to “patent” specific strains is deeply problematic:

To try to bring some order to the industry through science, Steep Hill analysts are using leading-edge technology, like a $1 million DNA sequencer, to ?try to establish the genetic map of cannabis? as Gaudino puts it.

He said all of the marijuana strains found on dispensary shelves are blends ?from the hand of man,? and he believes that they will be able to be patented once they are definitively mapped. In the last 1? years, Steep Hill scientists have accumulated 1,000 samples of weed, sifting through some 400 strains that are on the market. Many of them, Gaudino said, share numerous similarities.

In other words — using patents to limit innovation and competition, which is the exact opposite purpose that the law is intended for — and in an industry that’s already thriving, with tremendous innovation and competition. Once again, we see more evidence of how frequently patents have nothing to do with “promoting” innovation, but are used to stifle innovation and competition.

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Comments on “The Ridiculous Rush To Try To Patent Pot”

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71 Comments
Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Decriminalize It

Actually that is Why the legalization initiative failed in Ohio this year. The only allowed growers would have been ONE wealthy investors with a state license.

FTFY. You must have missed that part in the actual proposition.

Years ago before Arizona legalized medical MJ a similar proposition failed when it was learned that it would require all MJ to come from one source in the southeast which happened to have legal permission from the federal government to grow MJ.

Mason Wheeler (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Because “medical” marijuana is a joke. Any responsible doctor can tell you that smoking pot is completely antithetical to the practices of modern medicine, for several reasons:

1) Real medicine is produced to a laboratory-certified grade of purity, generally mixed with inert fillers, and dispensed at a controlled dose. Weed is… well… a weed. It’s not a medicinal drug; it’s a plant that contains a (supposedly) medicinal drug.

2) Speaking of laboratory-purified medicinal drugs, studies have shown that patients do not receive the same therapeutic benefits from laboratory-purified THC (the active ingredient in marijuana) that “medicinal marijuana” proponents claim the plant confers. There are really only two possible explanations for this. Either “medicinal marijuana” proponents are flat-out lying, simply looking for an excuse to get stoned, or they’re telling the truth, which means there’s another active ingredient in there and we don’t know what it is or what its properties are yet. If the first is true, explanation then there’s no such thing as medicinal marijuana, and if the second is true, then it’s something no responsible doctor would ever prescribe due to unknown drug risks. (Allergies, interactions, etc.)

3) Marijuana is frequently (though not always) ingested by smoking. Again, this is something no responsible doctor would ever prescribe, for reasons that I hope do not need to be elaborated upon in 21st century America.

There’s medicine, and then there’s marijuana, but the idea of conflating the two is absolutely ridiculous to anyone who knows anything about medicine.

Wendy Cockcroft says:

Re: Re: Re:3 Re:

Would you care to comment on what the alleged fallacy is, please?

Not all doctor-dispensed medicines are made by Big Pharma. Indeed, my own doctor prefers to prescribe generics where he can and as long as they work I don’t give a rat’s.

Since Mason made a well-reasoned argument either refute it effectively with a counter-argument or walk away. Nobody ever won an argument by bitching at people.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4 Re:

it would be easier to list the fallacies not employed by mr wheeler.

Since Mason made a well-reasoned argument either refute it effectively with a counter-argument or walk away. Nobody ever won an argument by bitching at people.

unfortunately, it is not a well-reasoned ‘argument.’ What we have here is an arrogant fool just making noise.

Bill Jackson (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

All the classic drugs, opium, belladonna, willow extract(salicylic acid) and so on were consumed as a misture, and did indeed vary greatly in efficacy. Turning them into drugs took careful fractionation and determination of the active ingredient.
It is possible that there are several active components in the marijuana plant.
Right now it is smoked, which destroys 70-80% of various components, and degrades them and makes tars which cause cancer in lungs.
Skip to tobacco – legal, but also cancerous.
Skip to nicotine puffers = safe way to inhale the active ingredient.
Skip back to marijuana, extract the active ingredient(s)
safely analyze whatever they are good for and then make each separate active ingredient available in the correct way to use whatever medical aspect it has – be it puffers or pills

alternatives() says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

Skip back to marijuana, extract the active ingredient(s)
safely analyze whatever they are good for and then make each separate active ingredient available in the correct way to use whatever medical aspect it has – be it puffers or pills

The issue on that idea TODAY in the US of A is one can’t get funding or perhaps actually DO a study because of the “drug war” classification.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Part of the problem with ‘medical’ marijuana is that all scientific studies on the effects of medicines must be approved by the FDA before the medicine can go to market.

But it’s ILLEGAL for the FDA to approve of ANY Medical Marijuana study, due to Marijuana being classified as a Schedule #1 drug, which the laws says means there’s no valid medical use for it.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

due to Marijuana being classified as a Schedule #1 drug, which the laws says means there’s no valid medical use for it.

And yet – there is the synthetic THC as Marintol showing the present classification of “no valid medical benefit” isn’t right.

The FAR more interesting legal attack tied to the marijuana issue would be a law to overturn Wucjard VS Filburn.

steell (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Your post suggests to me that you feel yourself superior to anyone else here. Since I am sometimes wrong I’m going to give you the benefit of doubt and the opportunity to learn.

Here are a bunch of peer reviewed studies that say you are wrong.

http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000884

Please post your thoughts after a thorough review.

Gwiz (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Re:

Show me the studies.

steell gave you a link up above to 60 studies:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20151115/02221132821/ridiculous-rush-to-try-to-patent-pot.shtml#c244

Also pointed out by Dr. Sanjay Gupta in the link I provided:

In my quick running of the numbers, I calculated about 6% of the current U.S. marijuana studies investigate the benefits of medical marijuana. The rest are designed to investigate harm. That imbalance paints a highly distorted picture.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/08/health/gupta-changed-mind-marijuana/

alternatives() says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Re:

Show me the studies.

Why should the time be wasted on you to do that? Because you’ll carefully read the study and have your mind changed?

When actual adults with open minds decide to sit down to talk they can exchange information like:

If you want to read studies why not hit non-profit advocacy sites like norml.com and read what they link to.

And once an actual adult “Thinks of the Children” they can find an article like this:
http://blogs.wsj.com/pharmalot/2015/01/26/pediatricians-urge-dea-to-reclassify-medical-marijuana-to-boost-research/

alternatives() says:

Re: Re: Re:

Because “medical” marijuana is a joke.

Oh really?

Real medicine is produced to a laboratory-certified grade of purity

No, those would be pharmaceutical drugs.

Understanding that “doctors” practice “medicine” and how humans are NOT graded for purity, I type “define medicine” into a search engine and got:
the science or practice of the diagnosis, treatment, and prevention of disease

it’s something no responsible doctor would ever prescribe due to unknown drug risks.

Its a good thing then all the doctors who prescribed the drugs that adverse side effects resulting in lawsuits have had their doctoring licences pulled. Vioxx, Phen-Phen, et al must have just left only responsible doctors in the field.

Marijuana is frequently (though not always) ingested by smoking. Again, this is something no responsible doctor would ever prescribe, for reasons that I hope do not need to be elaborated upon in 21st century America.

Really? Taking in vapours of a set of chemicals to achieve a dosing is bad? It is too darn bad the makers of nebulizers, inhalers, or even vaporizers don’t know about the liability minefield they are entering.

There’s medicine, and then there’s marijuana, but the idea of conflating the two is absolutely ridiculous to anyone who knows anything about medicine.

And you do? Under ‘appeal to authority’ arguments – why should YOU be believed with the statements you made? What are your certifications in “medicine knowing”? Cuz out of the gate the Oxford dictionary didn’t agree with you.

Mason Wheeler (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

No, those would be pharmaceutical drugs.

Understanding that “doctors” practice “medicine” and how humans are NOT graded for purity, I type “define medicine” into a search engine and got:
the science or practice of the diagnosis, treatment, and prevention of disease

Please tell me you’re not really that dense. Medication (also known as “medicine” in colloquial speech, not to be confused with “the practice of medicine,” which shouldn’t need to be pointed out because no one actually confuses them) is pharmaceutical drugs in the modern age. It’s stuff that’s been properly studied and understood by scientists, rather than the traditional or “well I heard it works” folk remedies of the dark ages.

Its a good thing then all the doctors who prescribed the drugs that adverse side effects resulting in lawsuits have had their doctoring licences pulled. Vioxx, Phen-Phen, et al must have just left only responsible doctors in the field.

OK, you’re just being intentionally disingenuous here. There’s a huge difference between a doctor prescribing something that they believe is safe but actually isn’t because the doctor was lied to and something that they know full well isn’t proper medication. (Worth looking up: the concept of mens rea.

Really? Taking in vapours of a set of chemicals to achieve a dosing is bad? It is too darn bad the makers of nebulizers, inhalers, or even vaporizers don’t know about the liability minefield they are entering.

No, and that’s not what I said. I said smoking is bad for reasons that need not be explained, and if you seriously do need an explanation and you’re not just trolling, then please go away and let the grown-ups talk.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2 Re:

Get this, racist troll Mason Wheeler is claiming that he’s a grown up. That’s rich. Here is a ‘dude’ that uses immature logic such as

Medication (also known as “medicine” in colloquial speech, not to be confused with “the practice of medicine,” which shouldn’t need to be pointed out because no one actually confuses them) is pharmaceutical drugs in the modern age.

I like how he tells us what need to explained (and what doesn’t). Klassy for sure.

Bill Jackson (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: Re:

There are a few drugs that are used as they come from plants.
Salicylic acid, was turned into Acetyl Salicylic acid(aspirin) and Opium from poppies has evolved into many derivatives, and the fungi, in their battle against bacteria gave us penicillin and hundreds more from other fungi and their lab variations but most drugs in use now have come from scanning large numbers of compounds by mass screening method to find activity.

Gene sequencing looks like it will create the next wave of antibiotics, via synthesis and CRISPR methods that can use cells as factories for this and that.

The problem is the work needed to verify that a new drug is safe can cost $500 million. A number of drugs fail this screen and that is why the new drug pipeline is empty, almost.This can be paid by taxes or high drug prices while they are on patent. What would you choose? no testing or government pays?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

1) Real medicine is produced to a laboratory-certified grade of purity, generally mixed with inert fillers, and dispensed at a controlled dose.

What is a controlled dose. Being given a months supply in advance. That sounds like a controlled dose.

How do you feel about aloe vera. should i kill my plants and only use pills recommended by 7/10 doctors and you

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

I agree. I have a couple friends with cancer and cannabis helps with pain, appetite, and nausea due to chemo.

There is also much evidence and study concerning Epilepsy and using cannabis to reduce length and frequency of seizures.

Please don’t make light of a very real medicine just because others use it for recreational purposes.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

This…. is an interesting question actually.

Not weed specifically, but the idea of patents on illegal things. It would be an interesting way to stack charges on someone if the prosecutors could claim, in addition to ‘brandishing a deadly weapon’ people were charged with ‘Violating patent #71437355 – A procedure for causing intimidation using a firearm’, held obviously by the NYPD. Heck, the medical community is used to locking up drugs with uses obvious for decades, if not centuries. Just give Big Pharma a nice bit of exclusivity for ‘heroin’.

Sure it won’t actually change anyone’s habbits, methods, goals or intentions, but it’ll give more charges to entice a plea deal.

Lets face it… dumber patents are enforced.

Anonymous Coward says:

The most ironic things about this

There’s some very ironic things about trying to bring in patents/trademarks into marijuana, in the US especially.

1) Marijuana is still very much illegal under US Federal law. That means the Federal government could at any time still prosecute the people who use marijuana, even in the states that ‘legalized’ it.

2) Therefore, by trying to patent marijuana, an illegal product, investors and businesses are basically telling the Federal government “I’m breaking the law and you can arrest me for it”.

3) While Obama is unlikely to go after such people, some of the people running for president (such as Chris Christie) have made clear they will enforce Federal Marijuana bans and prosecute people if they win in 2016.

4) Somehow, I’m doubtful the Federal Government would grant a patent on something that’s clearly illegal.

Tom Mink (profile) says:

Hello? DEA? Please target me!

I wonder how many of these lawyers are going to offer defense services for people and businesses that register with the government as sole sponsors of criminal enterprises. No matter how things shake out on the legalization front, I’m sure the eventual status will be limited in some fashion. Whoever tries to patent a strain that falls outside of the guidelines is suddenly on the hook as the producer of any amount that’s found in circulation.

Even if federal enforcement remains lax, who would want to take on the liability of taking ownership of specific strains? If cops in Nebraska test a shipment and find that it is your intellectual property, how much extra legal wrangling is it going to take to maintain that you aren’t responsible for trafficking it?

Doug says:

Threat from Big Business

I picked up on the scare tactic Gaudino used, that Big Ag and Big Pharma would come do the patenting if the small players don’t. I agree with Masnick about the ridiculousness of patents in this area and how they kill innovation, but this threat seems like a real risk. It’s the system perpetuating the system. If you don’t do it, someone else will and then you will be hosed. That’s another of the perversities of the patent system.

Reggie Gaudino says:

Re: Threat from Big Business

The scare tactic was to motivate the cannabis industry. Here’s the point all of you “experts” fail to realize. Steep Hill is an analytic testing lab. We don’t grow. We don’t breed. We don’t produce ANYTHING. we test. we test for potency, we test for safety, we do genetic research to help OTHER’s do their job better. We don’t care WHO owns the patents or WHO grows, cause at the end of the day we will still test the product. We will still offer marker assisted breeding to ANYONE who wants to use our services. So if the cannabis industry DOESN’T wake up and play by big business rules, it doesn’t hurt Steep Hill. So…. patent or not at your own peril. Im just offering my view point as someone who’s spent the last 20 years in Intellectual Property and happens to be a genetic researcher, with a plant background. I just MIGHT have a unique perspective, or i might not. either way… i have no skin in the game, other than, no matter who owns, it… I test it.

OldGeezer (profile) says:

Kansas Drug Tax

In the state of Kansas drug dealers are required to pay a tax and affix a stamp on it. The purchase is anonymous. This does not mean pot is in any way legal here. It only means if you are busted and have not paid this tax they will pile tax evasion charges in addition to dealing. Knowing the IRS you would probably get more prison time for the tax. The IRS took down Al Capone when he was too smart to get convicted for all the mob crimes he was responsible for. Here is the link on the official Kansas government site:
http://www.ksrevenue.org/perstaxtypesdrug.html

In Kansas possession of anything less than an ounce is a misdemeanor. On a first offense and no one does any jail time for it. They put you on probation and require you to complete drug rehab and get tested weekly at your own expense. This is only if the ounce is in one bag. If it split into smaller amounts they can charge you with dealing.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

I think one struggle that these people would have is proving inventorship. Sure, map the marijuana, but mapping it is not inventing it.

Another struggle would be proving that any particular kind of marijuana does not occur in nature. Frankly, the guy who wrote the original article seems like he is smoking dope.

nothing (profile) says:

Sativex was granted a US patent in 2011

Patents like this are strange. The USA patented cannabinoids (in general) in 1998 (US6630507 B1). Sativex is a simple tincture of cannabis. Such tinctures were widely prescribed in the US prior to prohibition. Bayer and Lilly produced several pharmaceuticals based on “Indian Hemp” and “Cannabis Americana”. The scare quotes around “medical” in this context are unnecessary. The human endocannabinoid system is evolutionarily conservative. It’s DNA firmware. The endogenous cannabinoid anandamide is a neurotransmitter that permits an embryo to communicate with a uterus (among other things). Humans wouldn’t exist without it. The cannabis plant has been cultivated by humans for millennia… not just for fiber, but also for dietary supplementation.

GWPharma uses tissue culture to “clone” several different strains. They run a giant grow operation. When harvest time comes, they chop the plants and extract the medicinal components by bathing them in supercritical CO2 for a few hours, evaporate the solvent, then mix the goopy residue with ethanol and propylene glycol. They fill a spray bottle with it and call it a pharmaceutical drug… Profit! The ratios of cannabinoids and terpenes are what makes each strain unique. Different strains have very different physiological effects. THC is just one of many phytocannabinoids produced by the plant that exert their effects in a synergistic manner in conjunction with the various terpenes also produced by the plant (google “entourage effect”). I’m not a patent attorney, but I wouldn’t be surprised if strain profiles are the basis of how they believe they can use the patent system to their advantage. There are an infinite number of possible strains that can be produced by man. Patent worthy? Time will tell. It might not matter.

It’s also worth noting that some breeders are keen to vigorously defend the fruits of their labor, but aren’t able to use legal methods to do so. This falls over into trademark territory… DJ Short is the creator of the legendary Blueberry strain. He’s stated in interviews that he doesn’t like it when people hijack the name of his strains for random junk crosses.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Sativex was granted a US patent in 2011

extract the medicinal components by bathing them in supercritical CO2 … Different strains have very different physiological effects.

By varying the temp, pressure and co-solvents you can select for different products to be extracted.

Pick a plant for pain reduction and then select for that set of chemicals VS the “couch lock” ones and BAM! – a less liver damaging pain reduction solution.

Bill Jackson (profile) says:

True cost of Marijuana

Unrestricted growth of Marijuana would tend to lead to a genetically mongrelized crop with lower average THC and be prices at pennies per pound. There is a possibility that a sterile hybrid could be bred that would capture high THC as well as other attributes, so that breeders would have to buy new seed every year? I do not know enough about Marijuana genetics to know of and if sterile hybrid is at all possible. The seed hybridizers would have areas where they bred pure seed via controlled piollination.

Local growers could propagate non hybrid versions, but they would have to bag the female plants in some way to keep pollen out, and let air and CO2 in. Some plant baggers bag each flower cluster.
They then spray some pollen from the desired strain on each set of florets to make the seeds for next year

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