As Predicted: Encryption Haters Are Already Blaming Snowden (?!?) For The Paris Attacks
from the shut-up dept
It really was less than two months ago that we noted that, having lost the immediate battle for US legislation to backdoor encryption, those in the intelligence community knew they just needed to bide their time until the next big terrorist attack. Here was the quote from Robert Litt — the top lawyer for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence from September:
Although ?the legislative environment is very hostile today,? the intelligence community?s top lawyer, Robert S. Litt, said to colleagues in an August e-mail, which was obtained by The Post, ?it could turn in the event of a terrorist attack or criminal event where strong encryption can be shown to have hindered law enforcement.?
Well, as you already know, on Friday there was a tragic and horrifying terrorist attack in France that killed over 100 people. And it took basically no time at all for defenders of the surveillance state to start… blaming Snowden and encryption? It started with the usual talking heads, such as former George W. Bush press secretary and current Fox News commentator, Dana Perino, who seriously seemed to blame Snowden for the attacks based on… who knows what.
Also, F Snowden. F him to you know where and back.
— Dana Perino (@DanaPerino) November 14, 2015
if the attack was aided through "whistleblowers" leaking what the NSA cannot penetrate, will that be part of the movie?
— GregGutfeld (@greggutfeld) November 14, 2015
The attackers are believed to have communicated using encryption technology, according to European officials who had been briefed on the investigation but were not authorized to speak publicly. It was not clear whether the encryption was part of widely used communications tools, like WhatsApp, which the authorities have a hard time monitoring, or something more elaborate. Intelligence officials have been pressing for more leeway to counter the growing use of encryption.
Here’s the link to that article, but as I type this, it now shows the following:
No matter what, the argument is pure bullshit. Of course they probably used encryption, because lots of people use encryption to communicate, and there’s no way in hell that they suddenly decided to use encryption “because Snowden.” As Glenn Greenwald has helpfully chronicled, the press has noted that terrorists have known to use encryption to avoid having their communications spied upon since before 9/11. Here’s just one example in an article stuffed with many, many more:
The real point, though: if you want to communicate secretly, there is always some way to do it. To blame leaks from just a couple of years ago on the fact that people planning to commit mass murder try to communicate secretly is flat out ridiculous and is nothing more than fear mongering to score political points.
Filed Under: backdoors, dana perino, ed snowden, encryption, going dark, greg gutfeld, isis, paris attack
Comments on “As Predicted: Encryption Haters Are Already Blaming Snowden (?!?) For The Paris Attacks”
When 'scum' just doesn't quite cut it...
Also, F Snowden. F him to you know where and back.
— Dana Perino (@DanaPerino)
People are dead, and do they care? Do they offer sympathy to the friends and family of those that died? Hell no, screw them, it’s time to use the opportunity to score some points! Who cares about corpses, there’s soundbites to be made!
Too ‘delicate’ to spell out the word ‘fuck’, but they have no problem using the dead, and the pain and suffering of others for their own personal gain. Lovely sensibilities they’ve got there.
Re: When 'scum' just doesn't quite cut it...
Maybe the “F” stands for Fox. Use it as a verb… Fox you too, Dana. Fits perfectly.
Re: When 'scum' just doesn't quite cut it...
Too delicate to use your real name?
Re: Re: When 'scum' just doesn't quite cut it...
????
Re: When 'scum' just doesn't quite cut it...
IT’s the same kind of stupidity that made some of the Mizzou protesters claim that this horror show detracts from their protests. IT’s a sickening phenomenon on top of a horrific event.
And these cunts have forgotten that they actually have a modicum of empathy for their fellow man and womman.
More proof that the last place one should go looking for “intelligence” is in the intelligence community.
Encryption has become the prime excuse for when the Intelligence community fail to keep track of known extremists and/or radicalised people that have come to their attention.
Re: Re:
Well I mean can you blame them, the US spy agencies have a good 300 million or so potential terrorists to keep watch on, while the French spy agencies have a solid 66 million or so potential terrorists to watch, so it’s hardly surprising that some would slip through the cracks.
I mean, I suppose you could argue that if they weren’t conducting indiscriminate spying on everyone, and only focused on those that have demonstrated actual ill-intent they might be able to focus their attention on real threats, instead of imaginary ones, but obviously that idea is just absurd, as the general populous isn’t going to spy on itself.
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Well there is always the example of the STASI. ..
Haystacks are to blame, not encryption
The surveillance state is never able to find out about these attacks before they happen. They only make excuses afterward. Maybe instead of spying on the entire population of the US and Europe, they should concentrate on actual terrorists? They are too busy wasting their time with people who do little more than break a few traffic laws on their way to work that they are unable to actually do real investigative work into the real threats.
In short, if they build less haystacks and concentrate on looking into the right haystacks, they might have a chance.
Re: Haystacks are to blame, not encryption
The surveillance state is never able to find out about these attacks before they happen.
A little knowledge of history might help – eg 13 Nov 1918
The fall of the Caliphate of the Ottoman Empire.
An obvious “hotspot” for Isis activity.
Re: Haystacks are to blame, not encryption
Maybe instead of spying on the entire population of the US and Europe, they should concentrate on actual terrorists?
I don’t think they know how to do that. Not being tongue in cheek, to me it really looks like all they know how to do is “collect it all” and then sit on it. And of course the FBI is good at creating terrorism plots. But finding actual terrorists? That seems to be beyond their capabilities.
Re: Re: Haystacks are to blame, not encryption
It’s actually about fear and greed. The people in charge don’t understand what’s going on and it frightens them. Rather than higher people who understand the technology and can figure out what to do, they just do what they can understand and get really big budgets to do. The fact that it’s not working is obviously the fault of the nerds and geeks. But that’s okay so long as their budgets remain big.
Re: Re: Re: Haystacks are to blame, not encryption
they want their budgets to get bigger, not remain big.
Re: Haystacks are to blame, not encryption
I wouldn’t be surprised if they had warehouses full of seized dictionaries. “We’ve got all the evidence we need, we just have to rearrange the words a little bit.”
(Sorry, old joke, but disturbingly plausible.)
Re: Haystacks are to blame, not encryption
Hmm that depends. I don’t know if it’s implemented but I assume they are working towards it. That is a Machine to monitor this haystack data. Have you seen the show Person of Interest? Something like that would require a massive computer, a few very smart people, and a couple billion dollars.
Re: Re: Haystacks are to blame, not encryption
The big problem is false problems, and I would bet their are more aspiring authors and would be games writers researching for a terrorist plot than their are actual terrorists.
Re: Re: Haystacks are to blame, not encryption
Speaking of Person of Interest, there was a quote in there that I thought was interesting.
“Any exploit is a total exploit. The tiniest crack becomes a flood.” said by Finch, when his partner wanted to build a backdoor into the machine before it went online.
Re: Haystacks are to blame, not encryption
Because surveillance was never really about preventing terrorism. It is only the latest excuse.
I guess this means even the terrorists don’t use XBOX1
Re: Re:
They consider themselves martyrs, not masochists.
They’re also blaming video game [consoles]. As for the archived NYT article, that newspaper has had a long history of transcribing government-approved stenography (see Miller, Judy).
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Or just sitting on anything that the government tells them to.
(see James “What does a guy have to do, publish a book?” Risen)
The problem is that the spy agencies are playing poker while everyone else is playing hide and seek…
Intelligence agencies and their pawns circling the carrion
Nothing new here. Of course, France has the most pervasive snooping laws in place already. Which did not stop politicians and “intelligence” officials in Germany calling for stopping civil rights considerations and adopting snooping and communication retention like in France.
Encryption IS to blame
Of course encryption is to blame for Islamic terrorism – the Quran is encrypted in Arabic – and none in the so called “intelligence service” understand it!
Re: Encryption IS to blame
Apparently even believers seem to have quite different understandings of what’s written in there.
Re: Re: Encryption IS to blame
Which is why most of them don’t bother – and accept whatever the Imam says it says – consequently we have some Muslims who are horrified at these events and say that they can’t be anything to do with Islam (the version they have heard that is) and others who have heard a different story from a different Imam.
Just to make things worse the order of it is scrambled – it is not even roughly chronological. A decoded version is here.
http://www.koran-at-a-glance.com/
Re: Encryption IS to blame
And those terrorists don’t understand it either
Let's review, briefly
14 years of ever-increasing surveillance
14 years with trillions of dollars in intelligence spending
14 years with trillions of dollars in military spending
14 years of torture and kidnapping
14 years of drone strikes
14 years of Guantanamo
14 years of crushed civil liberties
14 years of massive profits for defense/security contractors
And yet the western world’s intelligence forces were unable to detect and prevent a poorly-planned and ineffective attack carried out by under-equipped amateurs. (If they were professional soldiers, heavily-armed, and better organized, then there would be thousands dead, not hundreds.)
Of course those on whose watch this happened will never, ever, EVER admit that this happened because they failed. Again. Instead they’ll redouble their efforts toward the same tactics…never realizing and certainly never wanting to admit that you cannot fight the symptoms of terrorism, you must address its root causes. And in this case, sadly, the root causes trace back to the manipulation of the Middle East by western governments for their own ends. They created this monster and only now are they beginning to understand that it can and will turn on its creators.
Re: Let's review, briefly
And in this case, sadly, the root causes trace back to the manipulation of the Middle East by western governments for their own ends. They created this monster and only now are they beginning to understand that it can and will turn on its creators.
I think they are aware of your interpretation here – and part of the reason for their failure is that it is also wrong (or at best only a fraction of the truth). To understand what is really going on one needs to go further back in time – much further.
Islam had a dynamic of violent conquest from day one (in their calendar,c620 in ours)
From that time till around 1700 the west mostly opposed this expansion. However at that time the Ottoman empire started to fall significantly behind the west( technically ) and ceased to be a significant threat. From then on various Western countries (notably Britain and France) started using the Ottomans as a pawn in their own games of power politics. Thus the “sick man of Europe” was propped up to prevent the expansion of Russia and, in its death throes was allowed to ethnically cleanse substantial proportions of its territory (only part of which constituted the Armenian Genocide). The resulting displacement of peoples added to the tensions of the region.
In the subsequent breakup of the empire artificial countries were created and when their initial (puppet) rulers became unpopular the memory of Ottoman failure was still alive and so they were overthrown by Arab nationalists (who looked to the west as a model) rather than Islamists.
Thus after the first world war the fundamentalist party within Islam slept – until it was woken by oil money in the 1970s. At that point the old 7th century version of Islam was promoted and the Arab nationalists were forced to become more and more draconian to keep the lid on it.
One by one they have fallen – and we have had the stupidity to indirectly assist this process -which I guess is your point. However I think it would have happened anyway.
Probably the worst mistakes were those of the 19th century. Russia should have been allowed to liberate the region from Ottoman rule and consequently there would be far less Islam in the region (and worldwide) now.
Re: Re: Let's review, briefly
Such an expansion would have had little impact on Islam, as the Russian stans, (Kazakhstan,Kyrgyzstan,Uzbekistan, and Turkmenistan) still have strong Muslim communities.
Re: Re: Re: Let's review, briefly
Such an expansion would have had little impact on Islam, as the Russian stans,still have strong Muslim communities.
But these mostly do not seem to have swallowed the Iskamist agenda to the same extent.
Also the region in question had a very different population profile in the 19th century from today.
Muslims may have ruled the Ottoman Empire but they were not the overwhlelming majority. Had other groups been empowered at the time then these regions would resemble more Bulgaria/ Romania.
There would be other consequences too.
Possibly Alaska would still be part of Russia (fallout from the Crimean war was part of the reason for the sale).
Also it would have upset the timeline of history leading to the assassination of Alexander II. If he had lived longer then reforms he had in train might well have averted the revolution.
Removal of the Ottomans from the equation might well have averted WW1 so all bets are off…
Re: Let's review, briefly
The problem is that this happened not because they failed, but because they succeeded.
Re: Re: Let's review, briefly
If I may add a companion to this comment:
I think they realize it completely. Fighting the symptoms is job security. Finding a cure is anathema to the need for organizational self-preservation.
by Encryption they probably mean French
Re: by Encryption they probably mean French
From here on out, all communications shall be in plain English. If what you want to say can’t be said in plain English, you probably shouldn’t be saying it!
s
Re: Re: by Encryption they probably mean French
That’ll put an end to all the lawyers and lawmakers.
a poorly-planned and ineffective attack carried out by under-equipped amateurs.
Ineffective how? They plan to seed fear among ‘infidels’
and to make people be afraid they might be hit next whereever they are. Do you think the Paris attacks make this more or less likely?
Re: Re:
“ineffective” in two senses.
First, in a military one. Attempting to get a bomb into the soccer game via the security checkpoint was quite stupid, and it was only one of the tactical errors made. Competent military tacticians would have caught most or all of those errors during the planning stage.
Second, in a political one. Putin’s statement of expressed cooperation was not something they wanted to provoke, as IS exists in the nebulous no-man’s-land created by the disagreements of major powers. If those disagreements disappear, then so does the space for them to exist. I think this was a miscalculation on their part.
Re: Re: Re:
IS exists in the nebulous no-man’s-land created by the disagreements of major powers. If those disagreements disappear, then so does the space for them to exist.
Exactly – unfortunately this has been true of Islam to some extent throughout it’s history. It was born into the no man’s land between the Byzantine and Persian empires survived the middle ages in the no- mans land between Eastern Orthodoxy and the Roman Catholics – spent the 19th century in the no-man’s land between Britan, France and Russia and grew again in the no-man’s land within the cold war!
Not a double-standard at all
Aren’t these assholes using a terrible and violent event involving guns as an excuse to curtail constitutionally protected freedoms the same assholes who usually rail endlessly against anyone daring to suggest limiting another one when mass shootings happen domestically?
Maybe they’re not…. Hypocritical US media assholes start looking kinda similar from a distance…
They have surveillance covering nearly everyone, to keep us safe. Rather than admit that grab it all isn’t working, they find something to blame.
Oh it is encryption, because only bad people use encryption…
not people who live in actual dictatorships who will be murdered for expressing an unapproved idea
not people who live in ‘Merika who have seen the special attention given to those who pretend they still have the rights we were given
not people who don’t want to look like the morons at the CIA who keep classified documents on a fucking AOL account a high teenager can access
For every bit of privacy they have taken from all of us, despite all of the claims of keeping us safe…
THEY CAN’T DO WHAT THEY PROMISED, BECAUSE IT IS IMPOSSIBLE!
Stop giving them air to suck up and spin to get more power.
Stop coddling citizens, the world is a scary place but you will NEVER be 100% safe.
Stop sowing more terror to gain more power, because you really are becoming those you claim hate us for our freedom… because you keep taking it away like they want to.
Something horrible happened in the world, and every second the media pays any attention to the spin is wasted.
We don’t need to have the 3000000 word deep dig into those you think might have done it or why.
What we need is to be able to grieve for the loss of people taken in a pissing contest between 2 sides who just want more power for themselves not to keep the pawns in the game safe.
We are expendable if it gets them something more. They jumped on blaming everything but their own failure, only mentioning in passing (to frighten us small children) those people who died because the illusion of protection we gave our rights up for doesn’t always work.
Oh encryption cause this!! Not our years of failed policies playing world police basing decisions on what pundits think is right, not informed people. We set these wheels in motion, and they are running at high speed. Perhaps we should consider our answers so far haven’t been the right ones, and staying that course will result in more tragedy.
Re: Re:
Stop coddling citizens, the world is a scary place but you will NEVER be 100% safe.
Stop sowing more terror to gain more power
Exactly. Tony Balir passed a bill that outlawed “Glorification of Terrorism”, blindly oblivious to the irony that this bill itself was the biggest piece of such glorification around!
Re: Re: Re:
Funny isn’t it – that in Europe and America we have to give up our freedom to save our lives – whereas in Iraq we were quite happy cause great loss of life in the name of freedom!
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“Funny isn’t it – that in Europe and America we have to give up our freedom to save our lives – whereas in Iraq we were quite happy cause great loss of life in the name of freedom!”
Nicely said. I may quote you the next time I argue the 2nd.
Attempting to score cheap political points whilst riding upon the coat tails of terror … why am I not surprised? It’s almost as if they planned it themselves.
Next level
I offer our my heart felt sadness to all those who were affected by this terrible event. And now, based upon high level government sources from around the world who currently are not able to brief the public. The bad people that did bad things did not use encryption but instead used the next level of advanced anti surveillance techniques of substituting words with different words. This technique has been used by women for years. For example.
Man- Hey babe, I am going to go drink a beer with my friends tonight, is that okay with you.
Woman- Of course my love, go have fun.
After sophisticated translation- Oh hell no, if he leaves I am going to be pissed off. How dare he even ask.
Now the computer is still struggling to piece the rest together, as it shows only 9% complete.
Also, F Dana Perino. F her to you know where and back.
Re: Re:
You’re free to leave her a message on twitter.
Re: Re:
Also, F Dana Perino. F her to you know where and back.
Maybe that’s what she needs, but I wouldn’t give her the pleasure.
yes, i shuddered a bit the other day when the fbi guy said that basically it’s up to the people to decide if we want to be rats in a trap. thought at the time the guy spoke with an absolute wink in his verbal eye.
Snowden is a hero! Letting our enemies know our secrets is a great thing. No bad can ever come of it, because, reasons. And encryption is great. All of our enemies should use it all the time. Also, they should stop looking for that getaway driver from the Paris attacks. People should be able to help other people commit crimes. It’s the bestest thing, and it shouldn’t be discouraged. I don’t believe in accomplice liability. We should reward heroes like Snowden who give away our secrets and getaway drivers who help murderers. They’re doing good work.
/Mike Logic
Re: Re:
Snowden is a hero! Letting our enemies know our secrets is a great thing. No bad can ever come of it, because, reasons. And encryption is great. All of our enemies should use it all the time. Also, they should stop looking for that getaway driver from the Paris attacks. People should be able to help other people commit crimes. It’s the bestest thing, and it shouldn’t be discouraged. I don’t believe in accomplice liability. We should reward heroes like Snowden who give away our secrets and getaway drivers who help murderers. They’re doing good work.
/Coward Logic
Re: Re: Re:
you are aware that encryption is nothing more than math???
And “MATH” is great.
All of our enemies should use it all the time…
People should be able to help other people commit “MATH”.
Re: Re:
Did you have those blinders custom fit or do they chafe?
Re: Re:
Log back in, Whatever. You’re not fooling anyone.
Re: [#30]
I gave you a lol. Because you were being sarcastic, right?
Re: Re:
Letting our enemies know our secrets is a great thing.
What secrets did he reveal, other than that the NSA was spying on americans without warrants?
And encryption is great.
It is. And I assume you agree, seeing as you’re posting anonymously.
All of our enemies should use it all the time.
No. Everyone should use it because it protects your privacy. Or are you willing to post your bank account info here?
Also, they should stop looking for that getaway driver from the Paris attacks.
Hello idiotic leap in logic.
People should be able to help other people commit crimes. It’s the bestest thing, and it shouldn’t be discouraged
Huh?
I don’t believe in accomplice liability.
I do, so…
We should reward heroes like Snowden who give away our secrets and getaway drivers who help murderers. They’re doing good work.
Get help.
Re: Re: Re:
What secrets did he reveal, other than that the NSA was spying on americans without warrants?
Um, he revealed the extent to which the government monitors for terrorism. That info would be pretty handy, if you’re a terrorist.
It is. And I assume you agree, seeing as you’re posting anonymously.
So my choosing to post anonymously on your boards means that I think encryption is great? I don’t see the connection. I think there are pros and cons to anonymity and encryption. You seem to think more is better.
No. Everyone should use it because it protects your privacy. Or are you willing to post your bank account info here?
Sure. It’s Capital One Bank, account number 2044623568. Have at it. Again, though, you seem to think more privacy is better. I think there are pros and cons.
Hello idiotic leap in logic.
Nothing idiotic about it. In other contexts, you deplore third-party liability. Why wouldn’t you deplore it here?
I do, so…
You do? Can you point to single time you agreed that someone other than the party directly committing the wrong should be held accountable?
Get help.
Just having some fun. You’re the one supposedly with the abundance of ideas, even though you have a very closed mind about so many things.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Not that that’s not enough, but we’re talking about completely unencrypted online communication. You need to post the username and password you use to access your account. Don’t worry about anything else, we can look it up ourselves.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
“A shitload” isn’t exactly of strategic value. About the only thing Snowden told terrorists was “You were right, just a little fear is enough to make us destroy ourselves.”
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Sure. It’s Capital One Bank, account number 2044623568.
Umm, you forgot to post the details: Full name, billing address, associated SSN, PIN, etc.
Anxiously awaiting the details, provided you aren’t full of shit.
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
Umm, you forgot to post the details: Full name, billing address, associated SSN, PIN, etc.
Anxiously awaiting the details, provided you aren’t full of shit.
You’re missing the point. Just because some privacy is good, that doesn’t mean more privacy is always better. Mike sees things in black and white, when reality is much more gray.
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
You’re missing the point. Just because some privacy is good, that doesn’t mean more privacy is always better.
Oh, I see. Kind of like “My privacy is good. Yours is not.” Thanks for clearing that up.
Re: Re: Re:4 Re:
Another black and white thinker, I see.
Re: Re: Re:5 Re:
Have you ever noticed how governments do not want their citizens to have any privacy, but desire to keep most of their dealing and actions secret despite FOI laws?
S/He was just reflecting the approach of governments to privacy, its just they use state secrets to protect their privacy.
Re: Re: Re:5 Re:
We’re talking about encryption. It is black and white. Either everyone can use it, or everyone is compromised. Anything else is asking for magical golden keys that open a secret back door that only the good guys can access, and the reasons that that won’t work have already been covered ad infinitum.
Re: Re: Re:6 Re:
do you mean the unicorn pure-soul- knight-heart golden- key?
Re: Re: Re:7 Re:
Yep. It’s even white gold and opens doors to other planes of existence.
Re: Re: Re:5 Re:
Says the guy who pretends he has given the info the people asked for to make a point. No, that just doesn’t fly.
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but mike, we are all terrorists now, because ONLY terrorists use encryption, right? Certainly the US Govt/Mil never used encryption EVER. This is expanding on the whole “If you’ve done nothing wrong…” Argument, and it is dangerous, VERY VERY dangerous, if not out right deadly.
To the NSA/FBI calling for backdoors, are you going to also require that backdoors be put into key US Govt/Mil communications? If you’ve answered no, then you have to ask yourselves why are you better than everyone else? Does China have a giant backdoor in their Great Firewall? Again, you have to ask yourselves, “Why don’t they do this?” if it is so great?
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You gotta love someone who argues against anonymity using an anonymous profile.
Congratulations on your fail!
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Anonymous Coward – you are an armchair nurd who knows a lot about tech and little about history, psychology, and dealing with people face to face. You are viewing this whole thing thru a pinhole. I don’t know if you regard your on line ID as some sort of irony, or are just the ADHD type that thrives on provocation, but I think your ID is literally correct. You take a point that may have something but then stretch it enormously in order to have the last word on everything that you have never done, and in so doing lose any credibility for your original point.
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I want to fight you.
Name the time and place.
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Snowden has as much responsibility for this attack as Volkswagen has for the getaway.
Re: Re: Re:
snowden would love to profit like
volkswagen does selling getaway cars
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True enough. That’s why he sold the NSA data to the Russians, stayed under the radar, and never ever contacted any reporters.
This is why terrorism works; it always gets the victims to blame each other instead of blaming the terrorist themselves.
Snowden didn't allow fake refugees into France;
Hollande did.
Ask Rob Lowe said, NOW Hollande closes the border?
George Soros financed Ferguson.
George Soros financed the European Invaders
George Soros probably financed Missouri.
George Soros owes REPARATIONS.
Those who ENABLED these INVADERS to flood in must pay reparations to the Families and Survivors. Start with George Soros’ wealth, then Merkel, and go on down the line. The INVADER ENABLERS committed these acts BY PROXY and must pay FULL REPARATIONS. They must pay for the costs of policing and controlling THEIR AGENTS , feeding, housing, clothing, and REPATRIATING the invaders.
Jewish Billionaire George Soros has confirmed he wants to bring down Europe’s borders, following the accusation made last week by Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban. “This invasion is driven, on the one hand, by people smugglers, and on the other by those (human rights) activists who support everything that weakens the nation-state,” Mr Orban said. Mr Soros has now issued an email statement to Bloomberg Business, claiming his foundations help “uphold European values”, while Mr Oban’s actions in strengthening the Hungarian border and stopping a huge migrant influx “undermine those values.” “His plan treats the protection of national borders as the objective and the refugees as an obstacle,” Mr Soros added. “Our plan treats the protection of refugees as the objective and national borders as the obstacle.” Already Israeli businessman are buying up land in northern Iraq, where ISIS(rael) has depopulated an entire region, overwhelming Europe with refugees in the process.
Soros, a WWII Nazi COLLABORATOR, has been spreading TEARS and CHAOS through his financing of “color” revolutions, and his financing of race riots in America starting with Ferguson. Soros owes REPARATIONS globally.
Re: Response to: william on Nov 16th, 2015 @ 6:26am
[citation needed]
Re: Re:
Off your meds today?
Looking for terrorists under lampposts,
becuz that’s where the light is brightest.
Decrypting iPhones & emails is completely useless when ISIS is using Playstations to communicate.
These “intelligence” agencies are destroying the Fourth Amendment, with ZERO improvement in security.
But then, these agencies were never serious about looking for terrorists UNLESS they were under lampposts. They want to show some ‘stats’, and it’s easier to run up stats with dumb terrorists than with smart terrorists.
Or, in the case of the FBI, they simply MANUFACTURE terrorists out of 80-IQ dimwits in order to run up their stats.
Re: Looking for terrorists under lampposts,
These “intelligence” agencies are destroying the Fourth Amendment, with ZERO improvement in security.
The security they are working to improve is their own, at the cost of everyone else’s.
This is especially frustrating given that the surveillance state was ranked up after a supposed intelligence failure after 9/11. The truth is that our intelligence didn’t fail, it was our leaders who failed to listen to the intelligence. Now they want to continue down the same path despite yet another failure of their system.
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/ex-cia-director-bush-ignored-months-of-warnings-about-911-to-avoid-leaving-paper-trail-of-culpability/
A lot of these reporters get their information from government officials — probably the same ones who’ve been pushing the “going dark” narrative. Even if it’s true, we still shouldn’t be building back doors into encryption software, or regulating encryption the way we do weapons.
Facebook 'safety check' to be used for terrorist comms
‘safety check allows users to alert their network that they are okay’, but can also be used to signal their network to attack.
Ghouls the lot of them. Those people are delighting in the deaths of so many people as much or more than the people who sent the murderers in the first place.
If you stretch logic thin enough, you can blame all the evils in the world on whatever pet gripe you have at the time.
Obviously the Paris terrorist attacks, and terrorism as a whole, are due to copyright.
Re: Re:
Obviously the Paris terrorist attacks, and terrorism as a whole, are due to copyright.
No, no, no. Copyright “violations”!
Re: Re:
Actually none of us was thinking this, but thanks for admitting it as fact.
Well we better throw Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld in jail for being terrorist supporters since they use encryption (HTTPS) to access their email and banking institutions.
Re: Re:
Agree. Or at least F them. F them to you know where and back. Does that mean ass? I think it means ass, but you never know with her choice of words. I assume for this Dana-whoever that would compete with the hand already in there. You know, because she’s a puppet and all.
What’s wrong with saying that encryption absolutely *does* help terrorists succeed? It *does* thwart law enforcement. But it’s a price worth paying.
Here’s a car analopy: we could set speed limits to 20 mph on every road in the US and save 30,000 lives every year. Far more than we would save if every terrorist plat were thwarted. But we don’t do it because we value efficient travel more than those 30,000 lives.
Re: Re:
“What’s wrong with saying that encryption absolutely does help terrorists succeed? It does thwart law enforcement. But it’s a price worth paying.”
Nothing at all. It’s an honest argument.Freedom has a price. In some cases the price is in blood. The goal of terrorism is and always has been, to destroy freedom. Every time we take away freedoms to combat terrorism we are advancing their cause. Politicians love to ride these types of tragedy’s to push their agenda’s. Gun control, encryption, whatever. It’s an opportunity to advance their cause…
The only people not using these types of tragedies to push an agenda are the victims.
“You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it’s an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.” – Rahm Emanuel”
Re: Re:
What’s wrong with saying that encryption absolutely does help terrorists succeed? It does thwart law enforcement. But it’s a price worth paying.
Actually, that’s probably wrong. Lacking decent security on the internet would make it easier for terrorists to compromise computer systems – and this would probably help them more than being able to communicate on encrypted channels on the internet.
we could set speed limits to 20 mph on every road in the US and save 30,000 lives every year
And I am sorry, while I agree with what I think is your point, this has been repeatedly debunked. There is not even a decent correlation in the reduction of speed limits and the reduction of deaths by car accidents.
Re: Re: Re:
There is not even a decent correlation in the reduction of speed limits and the reduction of deaths by car accidents.
Then substitute “mandate 20mph governors on cars” for “set speed limits to 20mph on every road”.
Re: Re: Re:
“Actually, that’s probably wrong.”
lol?
Re: cost/benefit analysis
If you run the numbers it’s obvious way too much money and effort is being spent on trying to “protect” the populace from the threat equivalent of a very rare but potentially deadly disease, transmitted by contact with a parasitic infestation that lurks in the shadows…but that’s just me right?
Re: Re: cost/benefit analysis
Depends on who bears the cost and who gains the benefits. For government agencies it’s probably seems like a pretty good deal.
Thought of the Day.
Thought of the Day.
“I bet those bad people ate breakfast, So we should blame breakfast!”
or
“Damn that Wiley Coyote showed them how to make bombs, So we should blame cartoons!”
Blame everyone and everything for the attacks but the people who did the attacks. Makes sense to me.
srynas
This morning, Fox News trotted out a police chief who blamed encryption for frustrating the ability of law enforcement to monitor potential terrorists. Missing from the discussion is that the ability to “break” encryption means that there is no security, even for legitimate uses.
Re: Among other things
Also on the list of things responsible for ‘frustrating the ability of law enforcement to monitor potential terrorists’:
Blinds
Closed windows
Doors
Walls
The ability to talk face to face without someone listening in
Whispering
Hand delivered letters
Privacy in general
Languages that aren’t understood by police in the area
The lack of a police officer and/or camera and microphone in every room of every house and building
Laws (theoretically) protecting the right to privacy
…
With so many things getting in the way of their ability to monitor crime and/or ‘terrorism’, it’s a wonder they can solve any crimes at all.
Re: Re: Among other things
The FBI today announced the plan to extend the highly successful police bodycam program to the entire population.
The wearing of the bodycam will be mandatory (except for law enforcement/government officials) your cam will be issued at birth and all recordings will be sent without using encryption on a daily basis for review.
Re: srynas
Re: Re: srynas
That’s a legitimate complaint. It’s not his job to judge whether or not the positives outweigh the negatives, just to advocate for what he needs to do his job better.
Depends on what exactly he thinks his job is, or what he believes to have higher priority. If it’s ‘stopping criminals and solving crimes’ then yes, it makes perfect sense for him to argue against encryption, as encryption can indeed make those two things more difficult.
On the other hand if it’s ‘protecting the public’ then arguing against encryption is counter-productive, as he’s arguing against something that protects the public by making it more difficult for would-be-criminals to commit crimes.
Solving a crime is well and good, but preventing it from ever happening in the first place is far better.
Re: Re: srynas
Tired old excuses do not a rational make.
Re: Re: srynas
That’s a legitimate complaint. It’s not his job to judge whether or not the positives outweigh the negatives, just to advocate for what he needs to do his job better.
You know what else reduces crime? Wholesale slaughters of populations. No people = no crimes. Now, on that basis, maybe you would also argue that it would be perfectly legitimate for law enforcement officials to call for genocide. I would say that you’re a sociopath.
Re: Re: srynas
I don’t think it’s legitimate at all. There have to be a 1001 other things that can frustrate lawmen, ranging from access to real, human intelligence to lack of political will to tackle the root causes of terrorism.
Picking on one, the inability to read peoples electronic messages at will is just lazy, pandering to whatever is “on message” that week in law enforcement. What, is enforcing peoples privacy not in his job description?
This is a clown, in a uniform. Wearing a badge of authority.
I haven't heard the criminals complain about going dark.
So far, the FBI seems to be having more trouble with encryption than the cryptolocker folks.
Why don’t we simply fire all the FBI people & hire the cryptolocker folks instead?
The attackers are believed to have communicated using encryption technology,
Citizens are believed to have communicated using encryption technology when checking their bank balances.
Online shoppers are believed to have communicated using encryption technology when making purchaes online.
Gmail users are believed to have communicated using encryption technology when checking their email.
Yahoo! users are believed to have communicated using encryption technology when checking their email.
Grandma is believed to have communicated using encryption technology when talking to her grandchildren on FaceTime using her ipad
Techdirt readers are believed to have communicated using encryption technology when leaving this message.
You are believed to have communicated using encryption technology when reading this message.
Terrorists use propaganda, guns and bombs, so does the USA Government. The one closer to home terrorizes me more than the one in a desert on the other side of the planet.
Re: The attackers are believed to have communicated using encryption technology,
Terrorists use propaganda, guns and bombs, so does the USA Government. The one closer to home terrorizes me more than the one in a desert on the other side of the planet.
Completely agree. I worry about terrorist as much as I worry about getting struck by lighting. The US government on the other hand scares me far more. Terrorists have only been an excuse to extend their control far beyond what it is supposed to be.
Would it have made a difference?
If the encryption they used was breakable (and it’s possible it was breakable), would it have made any difference? Breaking encryption likely only would have helped figure out what happened AFTER the event, unless they were decrypting everything and could see and act on the message in sufficient time before the attack.
What you never hear in these debates
You never hear any of these talking heads, nor any intelligence official gripe about how they have obtained encrypted messages sent by terror suspects that they aren’t able to break. Nobody has ever mentioned after the fact that there was a communique intercepted from a known attacker ahead of an attack that was unable to be decrypted which may have been of substantial use.
They haven’t even intercepted their comms, and if they did, they were either able to decrypt it, or it was already in cleartext.
Now, I’m not saying that the intelligence community is useless, but there’s a job they should be doing and they’re not doing it despite being given nearly every resource they could possibly dream of having.
But, to them, clearly the answer is to be given more power and resources. The tunnel vision is strong with this one.
If they ban VPNs how will I get my music and shows?
Re: Re:
I don’t know, Sneakernet maybe? There will always be some means of sharing/communicating freely without having to worry about eavesdroppers. This truth is as old as time itself and no amount of surveillance power will ever overcome it.
I actually started using a VPN just a couple of years ago, fwiw. My reason wasn’t to hide illegal downloads, though it does occasionally do this for me. No, it was because the powers that be were abusing the law and civil rights in ways they were never meant to be and that really pissed me off (thank you Snowden!).
I always encrypt all of my hard drives too, not because I have anything to hide, but because I live in a pretty bad neighborhood where theft is a real concern. I’m not worried so much about my passwords since those are encrypted too, but the idea of some stranger looking at my photos and what not? That creeps me out lol.
I guess my point is that using encryption doesn’t automatically equate to someone being a “bad guy”. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for using it beyond just banking and shopping. And even if the powers that be did find a way to force programmers to adopt their whole “backdoors for law enforcement purposes only” concept (what a joke), evildoers would simply resort to writing their own software.
PS: Can’t wait to see law enforcement flip out when quantum entanglement becomes the communications norm. Good luck tapping that shit lol.
Re: Re: Re:
Law enforcement says “the terrorists used encryption to conceal their communications from us”, with the implication being that therefore something needs to be done about encryption so terrorists can’t use it anymore. But there’s nothing special about encryption morally or legally, it’s just a type of privacy. So substitute “privacy” for “encryption”:
Law enforcement says “the terrorists used privacy to conceal their communications from us”, with the implication being that therefore something needs to be done about privacy so terrorists can’t use it anymore.
When put that way, it’s obviously outrageous, because clearly they can’t remove terrorists’ privacy without removing everyone’s. For some reason it’s not as obvious to everyone that encryption, as a type of privacy, is exactly the same.
I can’t claim any of this as my original thinking, just something I was thinking about the other day listening to one of these law enforcement people talking about this.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Mind = Blown!
That is a great way of looking at it. I’ll have to remember to use this most excellent line of reasoning the next time I have to deal with someone who doesn’t get it.
The real irony is that, by blaming Snowden, the surveillance-lobby is actually aiding the terrorists (by way of letting them off easy).
My embarrassing “ah-ha!” moment: This post & its comments got me wondering what a government based on a single general idea (‘security uber alles’) was called. Turns out, a ruling body formed around an abstract idea is called an idiocracy. Suddenly, Mike Judge seems a lot more subtle than I thought… and I’ve realized that my vocabulary is a lot more limited than I care to admit.
Terrorism fuels the engines of the surveillance state.
Gotta keep those fires stoked, else the flames might go out.
Can’t provide evidence of efficacy; top secret stuff, you know.
They could attack Paris everyday, I wouldn’t stop using encryption; the Internet wouldn’t.
Turkey says it notified France twice about attacker
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-attacks-turkey-says-it-notified-france-twice-about-attacker-says-senior-official-a6736131.html
Turkey notified France twice in December 2014 and June 2015 about one of the attackers in suicide bombings and shootings in Paris that killed more than 130 people, a senior Turkish government official said on Monday.
Yes, by all means, blame Snowden.
I am so sick of hearing ‘The bad guys were doing stuff in secret! How were we supposed to know?’ logic.
Every damn time I hear these groups talk about LEGAL CIVIL TOOLS FOR PRIVACY they make it sound like every criminal had to log their plans with the local police department before carrying it out.
If you can’t catch bad guys when they try to hide what they’re doing, YOU CAN’T CATCH BAD GUYS! News flash! Criminals (yes, TERRORISTS are criminals. Screw the fear-logic terminology that has long since lost all meaning) try to be secretive!
If your only method of catching criminals is ‘lets hope they are stupid enough to make it easy for us’, get another job, and maybe we can finally find an agency willing to take it’s role and responsibility seriously, and approach the problem in a realistic and meaningful manner.
How Very Convenient
As Predicted: Encryption Haters Are Already Blaming Snowden (?!?) For The Paris Attacks
Yes, Edward Snowden was responsible For The Paris Attacks.
The attacks had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that Western governments have been humiliating, dehumanizing, bombing and controlling the resources of entire regions throughout the Middle East and Northern Africa for over 100 years.
It begins with the end World War I when the Ottoman Empire was forced by the Allied Powers as part of war reparations to sign the Treaty of Sevres in 1920 which began first with the partitioning and then total dissolution of the empire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_S%C3%A8vres
Western control of the region mainly through mandates pronounced by both British/French governments over the succeeding years only served to entrench Western control often through indigenous bought and paid for satraps. This scheme is wholly responsible for the repression of entire generations of Middle Eastern and North African people who had almost no hope of casting off the repressive yolk of corrupt locals and power (oil) hungry Western sadists.
While it took only 20 years for the abusive allied friendly terms in the Treaty of Versailles to explode in Europe and usher in World War II the equally abusive terms of the Treaty of Sevres and British/French mandates took an additional 75 years boil over with the continued help of local despots and their Sadist Western partners (US included) to bring the region to a rapid boil.
So yes it is all Edward Snowdens fault.
Time to ban
In light of the recent unconfirmed allegations please ban all the PS 4’s.
Thanks
M.S.
“It was not clear whether the encryption was part of widely used communications tools, like WhatsApp, which the authorities have a hard time monitoring, or something more elaborate.”
Whatsapp belongs to facebook, another skynet facade,
therefore it must be 100% NSA compatible.
“It was not clear whether the encryption was part of widely used communications tools, like WhatsApp, which the authorities have a hard time monitoring, or something more elaborate.”
something more elaborate like
an encrypted chat server
running on a stupid self erasing raspberry with no storage
through a very dark darknet (tor?)
with any common android chat client apps
that is not exactly elaborate, any kid can do something like that and have totally encrypted chat/voip conversation
And if they were on PS4?
Terrorists just could have all bought a PlayStation and communicated over in game chat. That’s how I pick up hookers and buy drugs.
Re: And if they were on PS4?
only NSA compliant video game consoles will be allowed for christmas in the USA
duh!
we and they were using encryption loooooooong before world war II.
The right tool for the job.
What a great tool they made when they financed the creation of ISIS. Without a visible terrorist army to do their bidding, it may have taken years to break the American Public’s desire for strong encryption here in the USA.
But with merely a few million US dollars sent to Saudi Arabia, for arms, the Five Eyes has put their best tool to its best use and in one foul swoop, put an end to many, many things that were causing it some grief, such as Syrian Immigrants, strong encryption, cyber-warfare, mass surveillance, and so much more…. which will now be demanded by the truly stupid people (republicans, racists, politicians, kings of industry, lords of the lands, police, etc.) of the USA, and allow the escalation of the Five Eyes base plan to enter stage three.
And as a bonus, they got to punish the French (fries) for all their refusals to be a team player and for continually refusing to pay their dues to the Five Eyes for protection against terrorist attacks.
Its gonna be a long memorable winter.
—-
The New World Order
Gary’s first law of social engineering.
The Surveillance State must ALWAYS fail to stop “terrorist” attacks, because “terrorist” attacks are the very thing that make the Surveillance State appear to be necessary to the terrified public.
Remove “terrorist” attacks and you remove the need for a Surveillance State.
Create “terrorist” attacks and you create the need for a Surveillance State.
—-
Re: The New World Order
The Surveillance State must ALWAYS fail to stop “terrorist” attacks…
Real ones, at least. It’s OK to stop fake ones that you create for your own purposes.
Re: Re: The New World Order
“Real ones, at least. It’s OK to stop fake ones that you create for your own purposes.“
As I said above.
“Create “terrorist” attacks and you create the need for a Surveillance State.“
Stopping one of the fake “terrorist” attacks the FBI is so bad at constructing from whole cloth, is actually neither “stopping an attack” or “stopping a terrorist”, since the victim of such phony FBI stings are usually brain damaged idiots and not in any way real terrorists, and the planned attack was entirely fictional and never intended to be carried out. Even the explosives are phony.
If the Five Eyes had not recruited mercenaries from all over the world to fill the ranks of ISIS for a publicly visible Saudi based Terrorist Army, the only terrorist attacks left would indeed be the ones manufactured by the FBI.
And since those are so obviously phony, nobody in the USA or anywhere else would be hiding under their bed any more.
By having its terrorist army murder lots of people in France, the Five Eyes have renewed the public terror level and created a situation where all of their planned global surveillance and crowd control operations will be instantly publicly approved, if not outright publicly demanded, for a while.
It was a superbly evil, but strategically timely move.
Truth is however, that the more often they do this sort of thing, the less time the effect of terror on the public will last, meaning that 5-Is will necessarily have to do this sort of thing more often, if they continue blowing up only non-Five Eyes nation’s citizens.
Which is of course, the entire purpose of ISIS.
When ISIS begins using US-made drones to target churches and schools in the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and Britain, you will know that the Five Eyes has finally decided to drop the other shoe and put the world to war.
Considering the level of escalation that the France Bombing displays, this should likely not be too long from now.
After all, the old farts running the Five Eyes want very much to enjoy the fruits of their labors before they are too old to get it up any more.
You may want to get used to saying “Hail Hydra”.
—
Even terrorists have a right to privacy.
Re: Re:
“Even terrorists have a right to privacy.“
Better watch that kinda talk there stranger.
Sentiments like that can get you a one way ticket on a CIA freight flight, to a small room in a small foreign country that considers torture to be pure spiritual joy, where members of your own government will gleefully pull off your fingernails and electrocute your genitals, with equipment your tax dollars paid for.
And if you think that a simple “anonymous” handle will keep the men and women of your government from discerning your true identity, using technology your tax dollars paid for, perhaps you would also like to purchase this lovely 500 acre estate/plantation I have for sale, in Florida….
—
I heard the terrorists also used guns.. Maybe if we just stopped making those, they wouldn’t have any and we would all be safe…
Snowden is part of the problem
It’s hilarious to me that people who are pro-Snowden drag up 15 year old articles and that somehow represents ALL PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. Look, I work in tech. In software development to be exact. And even people in my area didn’t really become aware of just how commonly it was used, etc, until all this came to light from Snowden. There are some estimated tens of thousands of terror groups in the world. Are you telling me they are all so organized that all of those groups have read that handbook and they all take orders from the same guy? How ignorant can you be if you actually believe that. There are tons of splinter groups and maybe they have never even heard of the handbook you posted above but BECAUSE of Snowden’s leak they now know to use encryption. You act like because you found one article from over a decade ago that all terrorists no matter what follow that same pattern. That is ridiculous and ignorant. And to claim Snowden didn’t have a negative affect on spreading the information about encryption to a wider audience is also ignorant.
Re: Snowden is part of the problem
Do you have evidence of terrorists learning about encryption from the Snowden leaks, or are you speculating?
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