71% Want The Dark Net Shut Down, Showing Most Have No Idea What The Dark Net Is
from the blame-the-tools dept
Much like encryption, Tor and the dark net are frequently demonized. One, because they’re simply poorly understood by the vast majority of the public. And two, because like any tools, they can be used for good, evil, or old-fashioned chaos. That this isn’t the tool‘s fault is — for some annoying reason — a very difficult idea for some people’s brain matter to digest.
The latest case in point is a new survey by Ipsos of 24,000 people worldwide, commissioned by the Centre for International Governance Innovation (CIGI). The survey found that 71% would like to see the dark net shut down. More specifically, 36% “strongly” felt this way, while 35% “somewhat” felt this way. The full survey was conducted across 24 countries (pdf), and found that the percentage of those pushing for this shut down was greater in some countries than others:
…The survey findings demonstrate that citizens in some countries are much more likely than others to believe the ?Dark Net? should be shut down: those in Indonesia (85%) and India (82%) are most inclined to believe it should no longer exist, followed by residents of Mexico (80%), China (79%), Egypt (79%), South Africa (77%), Pakistan (76%), France (76%), Great Britain (76%), Brazil (73%), Canada (73%), Australia (72%), the United States (72%), Turkey (71%), Tunisia (69%), Italy (68%), Germany (67%), and Poland (65%). Among the least likely to believe the dark net should be shut down are Japan (63%), Nigeria (62%), Hong Kong (62%), Kenya (61%), South Korea (61%) and Sweden (61%).
In other words, a majority of citizens not only think the dark net should be shut down, but they’re also making it very clear they have no idea what the dark net is. Shutting down the dark net would require finding and shutting down some 7,000 secret Tor nodes worldwide. Given how well anti-piracy efforts have gone in trying to shut down BitTorrent websites using IP addresses on the public Internet, just how well do people think this really would go? And that’s just Tor; you’d also need to shut down other dark net access avenues like I2P or Freenet, then magically ban any new technologies from being developed.
In other words, it’s simply not happening. After some scary references to child abuse and assassinations, the press release from the Canadian think tank that funded the survey effectively acknowledges as much:
“The anonymity of the technology of the Dark Net cuts both ways ? while people can use the network for villainous purposes, people can also use it for good,” said Eric Jardine, CIGI research fellow and Dark Web expert. “Despite public opinion, shuttering anonymity networks is not a viable long-term solution, as it will probably prove ineffective and will be costly to those people that genuinely benefit from these systems.”
So, yes, while you certainly can order high-grade Afghan heroin over the dark net, those able to look past their fear for a few moments usually realize it’s also an incredible tool for whistleblowers, political dissidents, and anybody else that may not want an oppressive or just plain old over-eager government sniffing and rifling through their communications. Babies, bathwater, etc.
Filed Under: dark net, encryption, tor
Comments on “71% Want The Dark Net Shut Down, Showing Most Have No Idea What The Dark Net Is”
New Brave World
As long as they have Facebook and similar services, masses won’t care about other networks, let alone understand them. Most people don’t care about privacy anymore, neither they see how the lack of it will affect them in a not distant future. The Internet now is divided between those who still believe in the old ways and want an anonymous Internet, and those who could care less.
Re: New Brave World
Hate to say, but anonymity is stronger now than it ever was. Remember TOR only became public in 2002, and VPNs were non existent during the early days. Hell my first days at the internet was with BitNet and where you were was part of everyday life. Nickname@Computer was how you communicated on the BitNet relay system, I guess the first instant messenger or IRC. As more and more people came on security and with it anonymity, only came about through need. Some of those very needs came from the US government, like TOR so operatives could communicate through hostile territories privately. Point being old days probably means security through obscurity, and doesn’t mean anything for privacy or really security on the common public internet now.
Re: Re: New Brave World
I also think that whoever commissioned this poll did a lousy job, or else this writer just used part of the results. It should be obvious that any such poll should include separate questions about phone encryption, chat encryption, encryption of phone, of skype, etc. They should be asked if they support HTTPS too. (Note that this site uses HTTPS.
Without that, the poll question becomes virtually meaningless.
Re: New Brave World
Facebook has added end to end encryption to WhatsApp. The market wants that, and it wants its iPhones protected, but probably doesn’t think of those as part of the dark net.
Now, whether FB really manages its keys to WhatsApp so that it can’t crack anything is another question. The only way to have verified software like that is open-source.
But evil hackers use the Dark Net on that TV show!!
The talking heads talk about going dark!!! And this is the DARK NET, its the same…
If we can just get rid of it, we’ll all be safer!!!
Of course without the Dark Net, we would not learn about news the powers that be don’t want out there. We would not learn about how people are tortured and murdered for daring to think they have rights.
Yes some people can do bad with the Dark Net, just like those cops who used NCIC to stalk women & find targets for abuse for their buddies… perhaps we should shut now NCIC as well.
Re: Re:
Some people do bad things with the Internet… Others do bad things with SMS, regular phone calls, letters… Bad things are done in streets, houses, public and private spaces of all kinds, really. Maybe 71% want to shut down all of those things!
BTW, your first line about the TV shows is spot-on! Always such bullshit when it comes to computers and the Internet, that this doesn’t really surprise me.
Re: Re: Re:
Yeah, this is the CSI: Cyber ninny effect showing itself. That show has gone OUT OF ITS WAY to demonize TOR and ‘the dark web’ without realizing that the dark web is used for many good purposes today.
Re: That TV show
My S.O. won’t let me stay in the room when ‘That TV Show’ is on. The few times she failed I only lasted minutes before the farcical nature of their claims forced my exit.
Dark net
Yes, awful thing that dark net. Yet the same people probably think that unlisted phone numbers are pretty good thing. Better warn them about the dark telephone net.
“A grassroots effort has gotten underway earlier this week. It’s an attempt by people who are fed up with criminal activity on the Dark Net to end such activity once and for all. They’ve initiated a Kickstarter campaign in order raise money to pay for all the spotlights their plan requires to make sure the net stays illuminated.”
Re: Re:
When they find other shining spotlight through their bedroom windows, will they demand that they are switched off.
Of course it doesn’t help that the name has been picked to reflect a default negative connotation. From the name it sounds like it ought to be bad. Were you to label it something like unsearchable internet the opinion would be totally different, even with no understanding of what it is. Change the name to something like privacy enhanced and suddenly everyone would be for it.
This has been done solely to get just this reaction from the clueless.
Re: Re:
Why must a dark place be bad instead of, say, just not illuminated? My room is pitch black dark at night while I sleep. It’s a dark room. And yet it’s not bad (or so I think, who knows?).
I’m fairly certain that I can get a way higher percentage than that at work by asking the business if we should take down the corporate network. Bet I beat 80%….
bet I can make 50% who feel strongly about it…
I use the Tor Browser all the time to navigate the web.
Re: Re:
If you’re using TOR to browse the clear Web, urban doing it wrong and have no idea how TOR exit nodes work. You’re outing yourself each time you pop up on a clearnet address lul
Wrong Question
Do you want to remove a known dark net? There are/will-be more that you fail to notice, but this one of which you are aware.
Isn’t the “dark net” sort of like “dangerous electricity”? You eliminate the danger throughout your house by throwing the main breaker. Of course, the lights and water heater stop working. But that’s a small price to pay for keeping your children safe, right?
Re: Re:
Lol no
In other news....
People panic because of dangerous DiHydrogen Monoxide entering their homes through the plumbing.
Re: In other news....
Did you know they’re working on ways to poison you with DiHydrogen Monoxide through the Dark Net? And there’s nothing you can do about it!
Incorrect Conclusion
Karl, you’re probably right about people not understanding what the so-called Dark Net is, but you can’t draw that conclusion simply because they think it ought to be shut down. Just because something is extremely difficult, or even impossible, doesn’t mean people can’t desire it. There was nothing in the report that indicated the respondents had to factor in the difficulty involved.
Hate to jump to the obvious, but a lot of people (I’d wager the majority) would like to “shut down” child abuse. Just because it would be nearly impossible doesn’t stop them from wanting it.
Re: Incorrect Conclusion
I would post something on this subject but it is ‘touchy’ to most so I won’t.
I’ll just put this here:
Homosexuals.
Pedosexuals.
Heterosexuals outside of marriage.
Interracials.
What is the common denominator between these? Answer: All were used or are currently used as a boogie man for society.
Re: Re: Incorrect Conclusion
I think homophiles and pedophiles would have been a better analogy, since then you’re talking about the attraction, rather then an act.
But I more or less understood what you mean.
Re: Re: Incorrect Conclusion
One of those things is non-consensual
Re: Incorrect Conclusion
“you’re probably right about people not understanding what the so-called Dark Net is, but you can’t draw that conclusion simply because they think it ought to be shut down.”
I can. Thinking that something ought to be shut down implies that they think there is some distinct entity called the “dark net” that can be shut down. But such a distinct entity does not exist. The term “dark net” refers to a whole bunch of independent and very often entirely unrelated different services and activities.
So saying something like “the dark net should be shut down” is a nonsensical thing to say, and betrays a fundamental lack of understanding.
They never asked me.
Heroin?
“…while you certainly can order high-grade Afghan heroin over the dark net…”
Link plz
the dark net and tor are different
Many have no clue that the Darpa Net begat the Internet which begat the WWW which started to share documents and information. Going dark can mean so many things from ‘not using the phone cause we be hunting the elusive mudshark’ to not accessing email while on vacation. Tor lives on top the internet but hides IP address to user connections, hopefully. Many can benefit from the security.
The press loves the Dark Net with its suggestive connections to terrorists and other evil doers. Which means that educating the public on the reality of the situation is unlikely. That would mean they would have to dream up the ‘Next Scary Thing’ versus doing journalists type of work. Like educating the public that the internet isn’t a series of tubes where evil lurks.
Re: the dark net and tor are different
Sorry, I posted the above without realizing I hadn’t signed in.
Tech-challenged plebs want to shut down something they know absolutely nothing about besides the name? This article fuels my misanthropy 😉
71% of people claim they want more privacy while uploading their entire life to Facebook.
71% of all people will support anything if the question is phrased correctly.
And in unrelated news, 71% of all surveys use 71% to represent the majority opinion.
Re: Re:
about 71% of canadians want a wall between them and trump
71% Want The Dark Net Shut Down
So going by the sample size, 0.000003% of the world wide population wants the dark net shut down. Once again statistical studies prove their inestimable value to society.
Re: 71% Want The Dark Net Shut Down
So going by the sample size, 0.000003% of the world wide population wants the dark net shut down.
That is not how samples work.
What question did they actually ask?
“Do you want to boot terrorists and drug dealers off the internet?”
or
“Some evil dictators want to shut down technologies that allow critical journalists and peace movements to communicate safely. Should they be allowed to do so?”
Re: What question did they actually ask?
What question did they actually ask?
That’s what I want to know too. The linked story doesn’t quote the question in full.
High grade Afghan heroin will not appear on your doorstep by magic – someone has to produce, smuggle and bring it. Child porn does not appear on TOR by magic. Again – someone had to produce it, …
Find the sources, find the distributors, … Plenty of work for the authorities – they should show how good they are in doing instead of talking.
considering the US military is being used to guard said afghan heroin growing sites might not make it the best example to use.
My name is Forrest Gump, my friends call me Forrest Gump.
Chocolate, Coffee, and Computer Networks...Dark is Better!
I’m in not in the “Most” category “re” having “No Idea What The Dark Net Is. I never really think of TOR as “dark” – more like “dimly lit.”
You want *DARK*, go with Freenet on a Linux box with full-disk encryption. Speaking of which, this article reminds me that I need to go donate a little more storage and bandwidth via my node.
Winning the war of words
Use the correct language. Instead of calling it the Dark Net, use something that spins it correctly.
The Light Net.
The Enlightened Net.
The Freedom Network.
The Uncensored Network.
Etc.
This would be as effective as trying to ban the Common Cold.
once we as ordinary people are banned from using the ‘real’ net, it wont take long for the 71% idiots to realise that the DarkNet is the only or would be the only way of getting any info again! some people are so stupid it’s beyond beliefe but usually after voting something out are usually the first ones to complain that the something has gone!!
No doubt the word “Dark” plays a lot into the perception. Remember when the term “Dark Continent” was a thing?
Heroin
So yes, while you certainly can order high-grade Afghan heroin over the dark net,
Oh noes, someone can get high without going to a local drug dealer? How will the Sheriff get more money and guns for the drug war if this catches on? And think of all the small businessmen who will put out of business. It will be like Borders book store and Blockbuster Video all over again.
Technical misrepresentation
Technically you are misrepresenting what the dark net really is. It is any form of encryption, not just tor nodes and users of the tor software.
Any encrypted communication is part of the dark net even though there’s no such thing as a dark net. It is encryption used on the internet.
And most people don’t understand that if there’s this “dark net” with encryption it means that there’s this net that is secretive and hidden. The same could be said of the Panama Papers. That represents the rich going dark.
Re: Technical misrepresentation
Technically you are misrepresenting what the dark net really is. It is any form of encryption, not just tor nodes and users of the tor software.
Can you link to any kind of authoritative reference for that claim? Because I’m connected to techdirt.com right now with an encrypted connection, but I’ve never heard that referred to as the dark net. In short, I’m pretty sure your definition is the one that’s wrong.
Re: Technical misrepresentation
The “dark net” is simply a network that operates over the internet but is not advertised or open to the public. Encryption is usually involved, but it need not be.
You are correct, though, in that Tor — while it can be used to facilitate a “dark net” — is not the dark net itself. In fact, it’s not even used by a lot of the “dark net”.
I hate the term “dark net” for the same reason that I hate the term “cloud”: it’s meaningless marketing babble.
Can you turn off the "dark-net
Let’s see now.
How did that official, continuous and constant tune go?
oh yeah,
Beware the Dark Net = Evil: Drugs, Prostitutes, Child Porn, Terrorists……. why, Dark Net almost sounds exactly like – daaaaaaarknessssssss
Beloved Internet = Games, Money, Sports, Money, Social Media, Money, Sex, Money, Entertainment, Money, Advertisement, Money, Money, Money…..
Can you turn off the "dark-net" without turning off the "Internet"?
Let’s see now.
How did that official, continuous and constant tune go?
oh yeah,
Beware the Dark Net = Evil: Drugs, Prostitutes, Child Porn, Terrorists……. why, Dark Net almost sounds exactly like – daaaaaaarknessssssss
Beloved Internet = Games, Money, Sports, Money, Social Media, Money, Sex, Money, Entertainment, Money, Advertisement, Money, Money, Money…..
The numbers shown will likely resemble closely, the numbers derived from a polling of the same people; about how many believe their government’s are Not Lying to them.
In other words, public opinion based solely on the collective (societal/national) belief in the veracity of official sources of information, and thus, opinion based on mainly unquestioning self-imposed ignorance, with the help of institutionalized for-profit misinformation and propaganda.
The poll results I’d be interested in seeing, would be thus:
Should a politician – due to their intimate familiarity with all things officially secret and their intimate interactions with others of similar and dis-similar “positions” around the globe, gained at public expense -be held to higher account for his/her deeds in and out of politics, until they die?
or…
Does the Lazibird lay its egg in the air?
—
oops
So, hitting a (possibly specific) Key, whilst cursor sits in partially filled-in Subject Field, can cause instant and un-noted submission of a post (there might have been a flash of something – thought to have been noted peripherally, on the screen), without a “View Your Message” inquiry, or termination of the Editor.
Possibility that the key-stroke itself was sole cause and cursor position bore no affect or connection at all.
Key-stroke unknown.
Cool!
—
The Title is Wrong
“71% Want The Dark Net Shut Down, Showing Most Have No Idea What The Dark Net Is”
That title is exactly wrong. Most people know full well that the Dark Net is a den of scum and villainy; full of murderers, drug dealers, thieves, loan sharks, blackmailers, prostitutes and child pornographers. Not to mention the copyright pirates.
They learned that from propaganda written by the government and published by guileless lap-dog media. Why wouldn’t the people want to shut a place like that down?
Fear of Ignorance
Unfortunately, 95% of people are too stupid or lazy to try to understand something they do not know. Afterwards, all they have left is fear of the unknown or misunderstood.
Attention!
Testicles.
That is all.
This is one of those great topics that a bunch of people talk about, never really saying anything about what the ‘dark net’ really is, so stupid people like me go through life wondering, “Is this really a thing, or are these guys just messing with me?” I don’t know if the ‘dark net’ really exists. I can’t seem to find any real information about it anywhere. If it’s so free and open, I want to experience that. Why can’t I experience that?
Darknet
Wanting the dark net shut down doesn’t mean you don’t know what it is. Just because it’d be nearly impossible to shut down doesn’t mean you can’t prefer that it be shut down. I want to fly like Superman, but I don’t think that’s gonna happen. So if someone says “the dark net should be shut down,” they could just be expressing a vain wish, rather than a policy.
Also, I wonder how many more people would want it shut down if they ever checked it out? I mean, the stuff I’ve seen on the onion sites can be pretty fucking chilling! I’m not asking it be shut down, but if Joe and Jane Ipad ever saw it, I’m sure they’d freak out.
Re: Darknet
Yeah, I’d think that a better way to make the title more effective is to identify that the DarkNet just refers to anything and everything that can’t be indexed online (so banking information that requires several passwords, email, etc.). Because there’s no way in hell that anybody would actually want that shut down.
Now, the thing I think the poll was trying to get at was “71% want to shut down Tor,” which it is “possible” to shut down, but it would be incredibly difficult for the reasons mentioned above.
Tor's not the Dark Net...
Tor, and anonymous browser services aren’t the definition of the Dark Net. The Dark Net, technically, just refers to the series of webpages that are encrypted and can only be accessed through passwords that would give you access to information, (so everything from dangerous black market Tor pages to your own Facebook page is part of the “Dark Net”).
Now, colloquially, the Dark Net in conversation just refers to stuff like Tor that can certainly be used for nefarious activities. However, a fair amount of positive stuff like human rights information from the U.S. aimed at citizens of restrictive countries, is also within that colloquial field. So it wouldn’t be doing the citizens of the world any favors by banning the Dark Net.
Regardless, the vast majority of people who don’t know what the Dark Net means or even what Tor is, also don’t know that most encryption services and Tor itself were originally U.S. military programs.
Re: Tor's not the Dark Net...
The Dark Net, technically, just refers to the series of webpages that are encrypted and can only be accessed through passwords that would give you access to information, (so everything from dangerous black market Tor pages to your own Facebook page is part of the “Dark Net”).
I think that is inconsistent with the Wikipedia article on the subject.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darknet
Do you have a more authoritative source that supports your view?
Re: Re: Tor's not the Dark Net...
OP: See where it mentions the ability to search indexible content? Stuff like your FB account (not your page, sorry, when I wrote “your own FB page,” I meant the private screen where you can manage the stuff you post, not the public page that everyone can see itself) or your private email, both of which can’t be searched on engines like Google or Yahoo, so it is part of the DarkNet because it can’t be accessed by someone without a passcode (which would be the “authorization” that Wikipedia mentions in the first line).
The Darknet is a phrase that’s been used by the media and a lot of others because its a scary and easy term to use that can describe any and all illicit things that happen in encrypted marketplaces and sites, but the actual technical use for the term Darknet is just any site that can’t be read without access through an encrypted service like Tor, or any other method of encryption.
This is why this debate is so ridiculous, because shutting down the Darknet would literally be impossible without disrupting the entire concept of private email/bank accounts/any password protected services (I don’t know why the author of the article doesn’t just say this outright). So many things are encrypted online that we use everyday that removing “everything that fits under the term Darknet” would terminate the use of those services.
Now, they could start a poll on who’d like to have Tor taken down, which would be the more accurate way to phrase this article’s point, because that would be 1) practically impossible as well for the reasons described above, and because 2) there are so many other encrypted servers out there that do the same thing.
Re: Re: Re: Tor's not the Dark Net...
What about the part of the WP article that says you need special software to access the darknet?
Re: Re: Re:2 Tor's not the Dark Net...
You’re absolutely right, I think I may have confused Deep Net w/ Dark Net. I think the site I used for most of my information was using them interchangeably.
Deep Net = pretty much everything I mentioned above
Dark Net = part of the Deep Net, but you need special software to access it.
Thanks for making me recheck my research!
Re: Re: Re:3 Tor's not the Dark Net...
You’re absolutely right, I think I may have confused Deep Net w/ Dark Net.
Sounds right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_web
I find it very disturbing that so many are willing to throw free speech under the bus, for what? Security? Safety? A handful of terrorists? You could apply this trade off to almost any electronic device.
They won’t have any idea what they are loosing until after it’s gone.
dark net
I think it should not be banned, it could be just better controlled.