Utah State Rep Unveils Bill To Force Porn To Come With A Warning Label

from the for-the-children dept

We have talked in the past about the state of Utah's strange and ongoing war on pornography. The output of this war being waged from the most conservative members of a conservative state government thus far has been attempts to have pornography declared a state emergency, to have a "porn czar" position put in place, and to outright block pornography on smart phones. And now, yet another lawmaker, this time Rep. Brady Brammer, has unveiled a bill that would require pornography to carry a warning label or message warning about the harm to minors that view porn.

The label about the potential harm to minors would have to appear on both print and digital material that appears in Utah if the bill proposed by Republican Rep. Brady Brammer passes the Legislature.

If the label doesn't appear, the producer could be sued for $2,500 per violation, either by the Utah Attorney General's Office or a private group. The enforcement process would be similar to warning labels about toxic substances that are required in California, Brammer said Tuesday.

There are a couple of problems with this analogy and, therefore, the proposed bill. See, toxic substances are not speech and pornography, whatever you think of it, very much is. To force someone engaged in speech to include government-mandated speech practically screams "1st Amendment violation." Brammer has tried to suggest otherwise, stating that it's not censorship because no speech or content is being prevented from publishing. Sadly for him, that isn't the only manner by which you can violate the First Amendment. Forcing speech upon citizens is a violation as well.

But, hey, there's more. Perhaps you're wondering what definition Brammer's bill came up with for what constitutes pornography and what doesn't, given how tortured a legal question that has been since pretty much forever. Brammer ingeniously sidesteps that question by pushing that determination to the post-accusation cycle.

The bill doesn't contain a specific definition of pornography. Instead, that would be decided in court if a lawsuit is filed under the law, Brammer said.

That sure sounds like a recipe for a hellish court schedule, as purveyors of content will have no idea whether their content qualifies as porn, while the law will be administered by a notoriously prudish state government. Mike Stabile, who works for the porn industry trade group Free Speech Coalition, nails the potential for chaos here rather well.

"You can't force someone to say something," he said, pointing to a U.S. Supreme Court ruling overturning a California law that would have required anti-abortion pregnancy crisis centers to post signs saying they are not medical facilities. Warning systems like those for rating movies with an R or PG-13 are different because they are voluntary, he said.

Meanwhile, the Utah bill is broad enough that it could cover everything from the TV show "Game of Thrones" to a partially nude selfie on Twitter, he argued.

It sure would be nice if Utah's state government could trust adults to make adult decisions and parents to be parents. Certainly that would be a better use of time than banging their legislative heads against the First Amendment over and over again.

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Filed Under: 1st amendment, brady brammer, free speech, porn, porn label, utah


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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Feb 2020 @ 10:55am

    Okay, but only if...

    ... religion texts, broadcasts, media, church property also come with warning labels about delusion and mental problems.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Stephen T. Stone (profile), 7 Feb 2020 @ 11:06am

      To be fair, the Bible is also filled with sexual content (e.g., Ezekiel 23:20). That would be an interesting challenge to bring forth were the bill to both pass and somehow survive constitutional muster.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        That One Guy (profile), 7 Feb 2020 @ 11:19am

        Re:

        Now that would be a funny way to spike the bill, simply point out that the bible contains pornographic language/situations and therefore would need to have the label added as well. I imagine having every bible in the state for sale including a 'this book contains pornographic material, and is unsuitable for children' label might not go over too well with the pearl-clutching prudes who were all for the bill before then.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          Stephen T. Stone (profile), 7 Feb 2020 @ 11:26am

          Enemies of free speech never think about how their attempts to censor others could come back to bite them in the ass. That makes the pointing out of said ass-biting so much funnier (and satisfying) than it probably should be.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 7 Feb 2020 @ 11:39am

            Re:

            Ha, silly plebeian, you actually think they would be affected by this and not pass exceptions for themselves?

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              Stephen T. Stone (profile), 7 Feb 2020 @ 11:42am

              Any such exceptions wouldn’t make the bill any less unconstitutional. But it would show intent to protect certain kinds of speech from government intrustion and thus what speech lawmakers consider “valuable enough to protect”.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • icon
                That One Guy (profile), 7 Feb 2020 @ 11:49am

                Re:

                Not to mention expose a blatant case of hypocrisy and undermine the very arguments being used. 'We must protect the children from pornographic material, as even the slightest exposure could result in massive harm to them... unless we agree with that material, in which case it's fine.'

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • identicon
                  Anonymous Coward, 9 Feb 2020 @ 2:59pm

                  Re: Re:

                  A pornographic warning like: "Some scenes depicted represent a choking hazard. Do not try this at home." Should be enough to illustrate the dangers of pornography to amateurs.

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                  • identicon
                    Anonymous Coward, 9 Feb 2020 @ 3:42pm

                    Re: Re: Re:

                    "The extremely tiny microbes that you DON'T SEE, while exchanging body fluids with your disgusting sex partner CAN KILL YOU."

                    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • identicon
                  Anonymous Coward, 9 Feb 2020 @ 3:53pm

                  Re: Re:

                  "Children! Go wash your EYES out with SOAP!"

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Daydream, 7 Feb 2020 @ 1:34pm

        You know, now I'm imagining someone going on Pornhub and clicking something with a raunchy title, except it turns out to just be someone reading out a passage from the Bible. And possibly illustrating it with lego figures.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          That One Guy (profile), 7 Feb 2020 @ 1:48pm

          Re:

          Depending on the passage that could still be quite raunchy. The chapter/book Stephen noted for example could fairly easily be translated straight into your standard porno with what's in it, though you'd probably want to trim out the murder/mutilation parts unless you wanted a seriously warped porno.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 9 Feb 2020 @ 3:57pm

            Re: Re:

            I really liked when I read Samsom slaughtered the Philistines with a Jawbone of an ass. He must have been surfing Techdirt after hours to find one!

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          bob, 7 Feb 2020 @ 1:53pm

          Re:

          Standing up in a Sunday school meeting

          "I will now read to you from the Songs of Solomon."

          "But first, let me pass around a sheet so you can mark your name that you are over 18, and consent to hearing these verses."

          "Oh and be sure to read the disclaimer on the sheet."

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Zonker, 7 Feb 2020 @ 3:21pm

        Re: Ezekiel 23:20

        I remember being expected to memorize various Bible verses in Bible Club when I was a kid. Strange that we were never expected to memorize that verse. That would have made a much more interesting lesson than most.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Andrea Dworkins Pig-like Vagina, 12 Feb 2020 @ 11:10am

        Re: agreed

        Just this once I agree with anything you said there, using Abraham's Razor of Holy Literature Intervention.

        (Sounds of King David, dropping his binoculars into the abyss of Andrea Dworkins massive, yet surprisingly pig-like vagina)

        SPLOOOSH!

        (sounds of a few TD trolls, in their heads wondering "should I make a snide remark about, like, HOW DO YOU KNOW ABOUT PIG VAGINAS?!?!?!" and then biting their forked tongues)

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      bob, 7 Feb 2020 @ 1:56pm

      Re: Okay, but only if...

      If they make an exception for religious texts, I wonder how fast people will create a new church for porn.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      Bergman (profile), 8 Feb 2020 @ 9:46am

      Re: Okay, but only if...

      Your own post would require a warning notice for those reasons, because just like religious zealots, you cannot prove your beliefs. You just have faith that you're right.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    DB (profile), 7 Feb 2020 @ 11:19am

    Within a few seconds you can come up with several ways to mis-use the proposed law.

    A private right of action with no objective standard means that you could sue anyone and they would have to prove that their speech wasn't pornography. Even if the speech had no prurient content, it shifts the burden and is going to cost the defendant much more than the plaintiff.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    That One Guy (profile), 7 Feb 2020 @ 11:31am

    'Poor Timmy, saw a naked breast and was never the same...'

    The label about the potential harm to minors would have to appear on both print and digital material that appears in Utah if the bill proposed by Republican Rep. Brady Brammer passes the Legislature.

    Perhaps I've missed it, but I've yet to actually be presented with evidence of 'harm to minors' regarding porn. Exactly what harm does seeing a naked breast or exposed crotch(male or female) cause to minors that is so incredibly damaging that they must be protected from it at all costs, other than raising the possibility of embarrassment for the parents to actually do their gorram jobs and explain a few things?

    I mean, unless someone is terrified of all things sexual, such that they consider depictions of violence or even death to be worse than exposed genitalia, but as that would be utterly insane I'm sure that couldn't be it...

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      That One Guy (profile), 7 Feb 2020 @ 11:35am

      Bah, typo

      I mean, unless someone is terrified of all things sexual, such that they consider depictions of violence or even death to be better/less harmful than exposed genitalia,

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 7 Feb 2020 @ 11:38am

      Re: 'Poor Timmy, saw a naked breast and was never the same...'

      Here's a clue, if a child is scared and terrified of seeing naked bodies it's because he was taught to be. In nature a child would be pretty curious at first, and then totally accepting of it, it's literally a normal condition.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        PaulT (profile), 9 Feb 2020 @ 4:05am

        Re: Re: 'Poor Timmy, saw a naked breast and was never the same..

        See also: racism, homophobia, hatred of other religion, etc. We all start as not harbouring any of those tendencies, the environment in which a child grows up applies them.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 7 Feb 2020 @ 11:42am

      Re: 'Poor Timmy, saw a naked breast and was never the same...'

      It is cargo culting dumb old Victorian ideas of ignorance as innocence and purity to "protect" children. Partially enduring because it spares them from having to think about it. The children, parents, or "decent society"? Yes.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      bob, 7 Feb 2020 @ 2:09pm

      Re: 'Poor Timmy, saw a naked breast and was never the same...'

      I believe what their fear is here is that by viewing porn, people of all ages start to get a warped sense of what is normal, expected, or okay to do. Which then results in broken marriages, abusive relationships, sexual abuse, injury, etc.

      We each have our own choice to make with how we use our body during sex. Porn however makes it seem normal for women to just submit to whatever abuse or whim their partner has. Also that a person must do things they are not comfortable with because that is what was seen in a porn film. Yes, I know these examples have plenty of counter examples and supporting evidence, but you get the idea.

      Most of that type of thinking and problems could be dealt with by having good parenting and a healthy understanding of sexuality and proper relationships. They instead need to treat the real problem.

      I dont know which is worse, just treating the symptoms of a problem or misidentification of the root problem.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        That One Guy (profile), 7 Feb 2020 @ 2:28pm

        Re: Re: 'Poor Timmy, saw a naked breast and was never the same..

        I believe what their fear is here is that by viewing porn, people of all ages start to get a warped sense of what is normal, expected, or okay to do. Which then results in broken marriages, abusive relationships, sexual abuse, injury, etc.

        ...

        Most of that type of thinking and problems could be dealt with by having good parenting and a healthy understanding of sexuality and proper relationships. They instead need to treat the real problem.

        While that could certainly happen, as you noted later on in your comment that's not so much the problem with porn itself so much as a lack of education and parenting, with porn just taking an already existing problem and adding to it. Fix the education problem so sexuality isn't some scary boogieman and it's understood what a healthy relationship involves and the 'porn results in unrealistic expectations' problem would likely vastly decrease.

        In addition, if the concern is unrealistic/dangerous expectations it seems to be they've got bigger concerns, like books, shows and movies, most of which no-one bats an eye at when kids read/watch them. This being utah for example Twilight from a few years back comes to mind, as from comments I've run across the 'relationship' in that series was not just bad but ticked almost every box in the 'abusive relationship' checklist, such that a kid/teen reading that and basing relationship expectations from it would be far worse off than one just watching some porn.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          bob, 7 Feb 2020 @ 4:00pm

          Re: Re: Re: 'Poor Timmy, saw a naked breast and was never the sa

          Yeah my cousin got into a bad relationship but she said it was so special because it was like Bella and Edward. And so filled with love and romance.

          I dont think there was drinking of blood but definitely some control issues by her boyfriend and his parents.

          Scary times.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • icon
            Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 11 Feb 2020 @ 2:50am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: 'Poor Timmy, saw a naked breast and was never th

            "Yeah my cousin got into a bad relationship but she said it was so special because it was like Bella and Edward. And so filled with love and romance."

            As good an illustration as any that it's important to realize that "imagination" is a mental safety vent usually filled with stuff you really don't want to happen in real life.
            Which is why abuse eroticism and horror movies are popular despite the fact that very few want that shit to actually happen to them.

            Confused and inexperienced teens without actual education to fall back on, try to learn how to act and what to expect from fifty shades of grey and bad porn.

            That's the end result of puritan culture.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              AROGSant Interloper, 12 Feb 2020 @ 9:52am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 'Poor Timmy, saw a naked breast and was neve

              SDM, you might enjoy this fascinating look at Puritan sex practices, from the Dig History Podcast.
              "Puritan Sex: The Surprising History of Puritans and Sexual Practices

              We have an image of puritans as cold, severe, hyper-strict and religious people, and while that’s not entirely false, it’s also not entirely true. From the very beginning, Early Americans were thinking about sex. The courts were burdened with hundreds of cases in which people broke the laws regarding sexual morality, such as premarital or extramarital sex or pregnancy out of wedlock. There was also a panic around a rise in bestiality!

              https://www.ivoox.com/en/puritan-sex-the-surprising-history-of-puritans-and-audios-mp3_r f_20790894_1.html

              As it turns out, the Puritan foundation of our country was/is indeed at the root of sex panics (sexual hypocrisy in general), but also, had a lot of surprisingly progressive practices.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          bob, 7 Feb 2020 @ 4:06pm

          Re: Re: Re: 'Poor Timmy, saw a naked breast and was never the sa

          Yeah thats why I said they need to change their focus from labeling porn to addressing the real problems. Any media can amplify a problem if used incorrectly.

          And you are correct porn, is more than just two people in a film or image naked online. Sometimes you need three or more people. :)

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • icon
            That One Guy (profile), 7 Feb 2020 @ 4:41pm

            'How dare you come after my RomComs?!'

            Yeah thats why I said they need to change their focus from labeling porn to addressing the real problems. Any media can amplify a problem if used incorrectly.

            Very much so, I'd say you nailed it pretty well that the primary problem is education or lack thereof, my point was more that if they are going to go the lazy/cowardly route of blaming porn for 'corrupting the children' then they've got much bigger targets to go after, if only because it would be downright hilarious to watch the riot should they try to slap those labels on other things.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 9 Feb 2020 @ 4:28pm

          Re: Re: Re: 'Poor Timmy, saw a naked breast and was never the sa

          The way the government reeled in democracy from the free thinking hippies in the early seventies by killing some of the outspoken icons and shooting some of the students is what governments do to keep the population subdued into fearfully obeying their laws.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 10 Feb 2020 @ 5:30am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: 'Poor Timmy, saw a naked breast and was never th

            "reeled in democracy from the free thinking hippies in the early seventies"

            In the early 70s?

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Andrea Dworkins Pig-like Vagina, 12 Feb 2020 @ 11:14am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: 'Poor Timmy, saw a naked breast and was never th

            I just want one more stupid American to say "yeah, but what about Beijing, 1989!!, huh, huh???!!"

            Deputized NGOs like todays the International Justice Mission, and their counterparts in the John Birch Society, Law Enforcement Intelligence Units (LEIUs), police unionists, switch board operators and the ADL et al did more damage to civil rights than the Gubmint could ever imagine.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 7 Feb 2020 @ 2:41pm

        Re: Re: 'Poor Timmy, saw a naked breast and was never the same..

        Which then results in broken marriages, abusive relationships, sexual abuse, injury, etc.

        Don't those things also happen due to a strict interpretation of the Bible?

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          bob, 7 Feb 2020 @ 3:56pm

          Re: Re: Re: 'Poor Timmy, saw a naked breast and was never the sa

          I would say it depends on your interpretation of the bible.

          Some group use the bible to justify whole massacres of people and slavery. While other people use it to justify being a better person and helping those around them.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Feb 2020 @ 11:33am

    WARNING - Watching this will make you hard, hungry and craving a smoke.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    hij (profile), 7 Feb 2020 @ 11:42am

    Best position in the government

    I want to be the "Porn Czar." It may also be difficult to simultaneously be master of one's domain, though.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    ECA (profile), 7 Feb 2020 @ 11:43am

    Love that this has already been studied.

    In the past there were a few studies..Including right after 1900 started.
    It was entertaining, that Puritan Ideals tended to raise kids that didnt know What part fit into what slot. Nor how to use it in the first place.
    Kids were taught REALLY bad concepts of their personal parts. DONT TOUCH, hairy Palms, ITS DIRTY...on and on and on.. It led to allot of Neurosis.. And some really interesting doctors visits, and deaths. Its dirty, its the devil, Dont touch it...and some Cut off the offending part.
    We created such a change in how People live and Are.. That if you had sex before marriage or Had a Child before.. You were condemned. And that lasted into the 1960's.

    Leave it the Frack alone.. Its caused enough problems in the past to never touch it again.. sex= the concept of 2 or more willing subjects, willingly enjoying themselves. Dont Hide it..

    Also the USA is one of the few countries with a LOW birth rate. We are barely reaching replacement levels. If we hadnt allowed Immigrants into the USA since the 1900's the population would be below 200 million..

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • icon
      OldMugwump (profile), 7 Feb 2020 @ 12:05pm

      Re: USA is one of the few countries with a LOW birth rate

      Actually most of the Western world has below-replacement birth rates these days. Japan's population is expected to drop 25% by 2049 (https://www.npr.org/2018/12/21/679103541/japans-population-is-in-rapid-decline).

      I assume that's what this bill is intended to address - people exposed to a lot of pornography might be less inclined to have real sex with less-than-ideal partners. So less babies.

      I think most of the evidence is that current population declines are mostly economic in origin - children are a burden today, vs. an asset (labor) for subsistence farmers. Plus birth control and late marriage.

      So even if this passes, I don't expect much affect.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        ECA (profile), 7 Feb 2020 @ 12:46pm

        Re: Re: USA is one of the few countries with a LOW birth rate

        Agreed.
        But the USA has had this problem since the 60's, after the boomers had their fun.
        And if we get Deeper into the subject, it the idea that Before the 1970's, marriage and Sex was allowed at around age 12-14. then more laws are placed into our society. Trying to control hormones is NOT an easy thing. And there are only a few ways to find knowledge. The problem tends to be those that Dont understand how nature works. Controlling something isnt that easy unless you have a solution. And there are a few. But go ask many religious groups their idea and you DONT get a good answer.

        There are other medical concerns also. In that Human Females are having problems with birthing. in the last 100+(??) years. The Children are Bigger then should be.

        I have a few opinions on Kids and sex, but I wont say them here. Lets just say, the idea of sex ed was interesting, but there was no home work.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 7 Feb 2020 @ 1:01pm

          Re: Re: Re: USA is one of the few countries with a LOW birth rat

          Population decrease due to natural causes is not a problem for humans in general at this point and it is a good thing for the planet.
          Why would you think that it is a problem - do you own stock in corporations that require continual market expansion just in order to exist?

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 7 Feb 2020 @ 1:43pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: USA is one of the few countries with a LOW birth

            Or you know pensions, healtcare, industry, food production, research and everything else collapsing. But sure, its only Apple and Wall Street that would have problems with population decline.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • identicon
              Anonymous Coward, 7 Feb 2020 @ 3:41pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA is one of the few countries with a LOW b

              Please explain your thinking here. There is more than one way to to do things.

              Less people means less revenue (tax & biz), this is obvious and I guess why you mention healthcare, but the conclusion you reach (collapse) is the typical no other option thinking we have endured for centuries.

              Also, pensions are supposed to be funded as the employees work for their living, it is not a hand to mouth like the feds have made social security.

              If we continue at the present rate, it will not be long before all hell breaks loose, it may already be too late. But yeah - lets put our heads in the sand because that worked last time.

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • icon
                cattress (profile), 8 Feb 2020 @ 12:52am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA is one of the few countries with a L

                Unfortunately, things like Social Security, Medicare, and many pension programs are run similar to a pyramid scheme. What the boomers paid /pay in is being spent on the older generation (I think they were the silent generation, but that could be incorrect). And being that they were a particularly large generation, they need an even larger generation to support them. And the amount of time they will need that support has increased with dropping mortality rates and rising life expectancy. Basically, more people living longer, combined with far less availability from younger family members to provide care and daily living support means a greater reliance on professional services. And while we haven't raided social security, it's just not growing fast enough; most public pensions have never been properly funded and are eating up local government budgets.
                We aren't facing an imminent collapse, but we could reduce the strain by going the opposite direction that nitwit in the White House is taking us in terms of immigration. Gee, no surprise he's part of the Boomer generation ruining the American dream for the rest of us.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • identicon
                  Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2020 @ 4:18am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA is one of the few countries with

                  " Social Security, Medicare, and many pension programs are run similar to a pyramid scheme."
                  This is not the fault of those who are forced to pay into these governmental programs that are being used to torment those it was intended to help.

                  Social security is not broke, they just do not want to pay it all back.
                  The blame game is used to distract from the real problems, it is a useless exercise.

                  There are many ways to do things, why do we continually try to insert the square peg into the round hole when more obvious solutions are available?

                  Think we are broke? Stop the god damned wars!

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • icon
                Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 11 Feb 2020 @ 2:59am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: USA is one of the few countries with a L

                "Less people means less revenue (tax & biz), this is obvious and I guess why you mention healthcare, but the conclusion you reach (collapse) is the typical no other option thinking we have endured for centuries."

                Because, as cattress explains, our entire economy is fundamentally built around a pyramid scheme which requires an ever expanding base of net contributors in order to cover the needs of the early entrants.

                Once you get more pensioners than you have working population the well dries up on the pension funds - which, in the end, collapses the house of cards. And the fundamental driver here is the entire system of market economy we rely on.

                Doesn't do much good to rely on private pensions either, since the issue becomes that more currency is locked up than doing its job of being circulated and feeding the markets. End result of low birth rate is stagnation of the economy, followed by eventual collapse.

                And there are no good options out of this circle either, except the recurrent phenomenon of raising the pension age to match the rise in life expectancy - a lever which has natural limits.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 7 Feb 2020 @ 1:12pm

        Re: Re: USA is one of the few countries with a LOW birth rate

        people exposed to a lot of pornography might be less inclined to have real sex with less-than-ideal partners.

        Not necessarily, as sometimes porn is used within a relationship to encourage sexual activity.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • icon
          OldMugwump (profile), 7 Feb 2020 @ 1:41pm

          Re: Re: Re: USA is one of the few countries with a LOW birth rat

          I wasn't suggesting that I agreed with that idea. Just guessing what the author of the bill might have been thinking.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • icon
            That One Guy (profile), 7 Feb 2020 @ 1:50pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: USA is one of the few countries with a LOW birth

            While that's a possibility I suspect you're seriously overthinking it and/or giving them a greater benefit of the doubt than is deserved. More likely it's nothing more than a 'think of the children!' fearmongering over all things sexual for cheap PR.

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            • icon
              Stephen T. Stone (profile), 7 Feb 2020 @ 4:51pm

              Oh, this is absolutely a “we must be seen doing something” action. The bill would never survive a constitutional challenge, and those who wrote/sponsored the bill know that. (I hope they do, anyway.)

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

              • identicon
                Anonymous Coward, 9 Feb 2020 @ 3:09pm

                Re:

                "We must be seen doing something."

                We know they are sitting on their thumbs most of the time. That is probably the sole inspiration for all these porn laws.

                reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

                • identicon
                  Andrea Dworkins Pig-like Vagina, 11 Feb 2020 @ 12:06pm

                  Re: Re:

                  Hopefully, they have apples nested in their assholes, because feminists and the right wing "protect the wimmins and chilrens" people put the apples in the assholes.

                  Assholes defined of course, by penis/not penis psychometrics.Long live that other patriarchy!

                  reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Andrea Dworkins Pig-like Vagina, 12 Feb 2020 @ 11:36am

        Re: Re: USA is one of the few countries with a LOW birth rate

        Porn has NOTHING to do with western populations waking up to how they were used and abused by the Military/Religious Industrial Complex as soldiers of fortune, and slaves to tribalist/religious/bankster ideology.

        Turn off your TV.

        And, tune in to porn, one of the greatest PsyOps ever.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    David, 7 Feb 2020 @ 1:19pm

    Turnaround is fair game

    I think Utah should come with a warning label.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Darkness Of Course (profile), 7 Feb 2020 @ 1:31pm

    I'm ready to be the Porn Czar!

    Of course, I'll work from home here in The Darkness.

    Bwahahahaha.

    Usage fees, required access to massive porn libraries (for research purposes) will be funded by Utah.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 9 Feb 2020 @ 3:11pm

      Re: I'm ready to be the Porn Czar!

      There is nothing like a total replenishment of government porn archives like a sweeping porn law.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Feb 2020 @ 1:35pm

    Nothing like advertisement.

    If it's a minor that reads that warning, chances are good that's just what he's looking for.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Feb 2020 @ 1:59pm

    Effect of law: Warning Will Robinson! Danger! Pornography!

    Kid: Aw sweet. I'm in!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    bob, 7 Feb 2020 @ 2:14pm

    But think of the future children that might come as a result of adults being horny after/while watching porn.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 7 Feb 2020 @ 2:31pm

    Forced Speech

    "You can't force someone to say something..."

    Yeah, Mike (Stabile), about that...

    "Caution: Cigarette Smoking May Be Hazardous to Your Health"

    ...brought to you by The Federal Cigarette Labeling and Advertising Act of 1965.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 7 Feb 2020 @ 3:45pm

      Re: Forced Speech

      I doubt that falls under the definition of forced speech, more like truth in advertising. If you want to sell your product, you have to be honest about what's in it and what the hazards are, only makes sense right?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2020 @ 4:22am

      Re: Forced Speech

      Do you consider it to be forced speech when the government forces children to repeat the pledge at school every morning?

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        Anonymous Coward, 9 Feb 2020 @ 10:43am

        Re: Re: Forced Speech

        They can’t force it - see West Virginia State Board of Education vs Barnette. It’s kind of the exact precedent Tim is referring to without the citation.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    SirWired, 7 Feb 2020 @ 3:27pm

    They *really* want to imitate CA's toxin labels?

    Those "This product/premises contains chemicals known to the State of California to..." labels are nothing but a way for lawyers to win easy victories against companies that forgot to put the warning on their product / businesses not posting the warning on their premises.

    The labels appear on so many things/businesses that they are entirely, 100%, pointless.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Wyatt Derp, 7 Feb 2020 @ 3:53pm

      Re: They *really* want to imitate CA's toxin labels?

      "The labels appear on so many things/businesses that they are entirely, 100%, pointless."

      Oh idk, sometimes I look for the label on the frozen pizza, because I do not want to burn the thing. Hey, you hear about the dude who burnt their Hawaiian pizza? Shoulda used Aloha temperature.

      Many labels are not pointless and may even give you a paper cut. When I connect things to electrical power, I like to make sure I have the correct voltage. Guess where I look to find this most helpful tidbit. I do this because connecting electrical power of too high voltage can be a shocking experience.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • identicon
        bob, 7 Feb 2020 @ 4:08pm

        Re: Re: They *really* want to imitate CA's toxin labels?

        Might even be the last thing you ever experience.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        cattress (profile), 8 Feb 2020 @ 1:03am

        Re: Re: They *really* want to imitate CA's toxin labels?

        Cute puns. But the labels mentioned here are on every imaginable product you might purchase that warn that it might be a carcinogen. And I mean everything, like the liquid in a snow globe, staples, dishes, coffee, and recently proposed for Tylenol.

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        • identicon
          Anonymous Coward, 8 Feb 2020 @ 4:27am

          Re: Re: Re: They *really* want to imitate CA's toxin labels?

          Ok - cool.
          and it is pointless to make this apparent to the potential customer because said customer has no right to know what the hell they are purchasing?
          I guess if you consider that everything gives you cancer then the labels would be a bit silly but I think that some things give you problems a lot faster than others.
          I like the labels that warn you to not strike your thumb with your new hammer.

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • identicon
            Anonymous Coward, 9 Feb 2020 @ 3:16pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: They *really* want to imitate CA's toxin labels?

            The hammer warning is probably the only real warning that no one pays attention to!

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          • icon
            bhull242 (profile), 11 Feb 2020 @ 8:10am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: They *really* want to imitate CA's toxin labels?

            Two things:

            1. They are put there even if the quantity and concentration of the substance are both too low to be carcinogenic, the effect on cancer rates from the substance is small, and/or there is absolutely no chance that any of the substance could possible enter the body in a way that could possibly cause any harm, or at least any harm worse than the harm the attempt to get the substance in the body would in itself cause.

            2. Because the labels are put on almost everything, no one pays any attention to them, so no useful information is actually gained by the consumers. They also offer no context to allow the consumer to weight the relative risks accurately.

            Warning labels make sense in scenarios where the danger is nonobvious, capable of significant harm, and either a) immediate or b) substantially likely given the context in which it may reasonably be used. They are fairly useless if they are put on everything that could possibly present some sort of danger and then some and can even be counterproductive by causing consumers to ignore valid and reasonable warnings.

            Incidentally, did you know that one of the carcinogenic substances on that list that require a warning label occurs naturally when cooking any kind of meat?

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Zonker, 7 Feb 2020 @ 3:45pm

    Meanwhile, the Utah bill is broad enough that it could cover everything from the TV show "Game of Thrones" to a partially nude selfie on Twitter, he argued.

    Based on the response from some very conservative people, the latest Super Bowl halftime show would likely be covered by this bill.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Rekrul, 7 Feb 2020 @ 4:24pm

    How much harm does sexually explicit material do to kids, versus society constantly telling them that sex is dirty?

    Europe: Hey kids, let's go to the nude beach.

    America: YOU SAW A NAKED PERSON??? YOU NEED THERAPY TO FORCE YOU TO REALIZE HOW BADLY YOU'VE BEEN HARMED!!!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Anonymous Coward, 7 Feb 2020 @ 5:21pm

      Re:

      There are some severely repressed people here, no doubt about that, but do not sell the rest of short - we're not all nuts.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      • icon
        Scary Devil Monastery (profile), 11 Feb 2020 @ 3:07am

        Re: Re:

        "There are some severely repressed people here, no doubt about that, but do not sell the rest of short - we're not all nuts."

        No, but when an estimated 50% of americans state they believe in creationism rather than science it sort of means you have to count the odds the one you're talking to might just be a nutjob.

        Fortunately there's a natural filtering effect which keeps most of the fruitcakes from commenting on Tech forums or STEM-based forums in general...

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Pixelation, 7 Feb 2020 @ 7:25pm

    Warning

    This content is so hot you may shoot a load in your pants! Watch with caution. Watching this content in Utah may cause you to have children.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    Miles (profile), 7 Feb 2020 @ 10:42pm

    I think the state of Utah should come with a warning label.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Dave P., 8 Feb 2020 @ 4:43am

    Label

    Porn isn't the only thing that could be labeled as possibly harmful. The "great" orange Trump's speeches, interminable ramblings and ruminations are enough to cause lasting psychological harm to ANYBODY within range! They should definitely be re-classified with a special "caution" certificate. Mind you, they could be shown to children as a warning as to how they might end up if they don't behave themselves!

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    PedEchsing, 8 Feb 2020 @ 1:51pm

    Warning Label

    Try not to make too much fun of the morons in Utah,,,some of us have no choice about being here.
    Due to the last 40 to 60 years of Repubs. being in charge stupidity is the norm around here.
    That, and the irrational fear that somewhere someone is having fun.

    (That's pronounced Ped-Xing)

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • icon
    john wick (profile), 10 Feb 2020 @ 2:31am

    very well

    While that's a possibility, I suspect you're seriously overthinking it and giving them a more significant benefit of the doubt than is deserved. More likely, it's nothing more than a 'think of the children!' fearmongering over all things sexual for cheap PR.
    Free Code Zilla

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
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  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 10 Feb 2020 @ 5:42am

    Some people seem to use comment sections as though they were an unkept street corner where people sell their used cars and post signs advertising all sorts of useless products.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 10 Feb 2020 @ 8:29am

    Our rights are being taken away or trying to be taken away all in the name of Protecting the Children or Terrorists. It's not even just the Government, but Police and even many people.

    Pull out a camera on a public sidewalk and many people just go insane, even though everywhere they go they are being recorded by cameras. It makes no sense.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    • identicon
      Andrea Dworkins Pig-like Vagina, 12 Feb 2020 @ 1:22pm

      Re: one and the same

      re: Protecting the Children or Terrorists is identical in Jewish-christian society.

      These two are inseparable: children, protected thus, become actual terrorists, killing "othered" children.

      Got that?

      Its what Jew-christians DO.

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    Dick Bruise', 11 Feb 2020 @ 11:58am

    re: my hard hat

    Wow. I just was violated by some porn spam.

    And my dick was bruised in the process by electronic weapons and mind contro, and some porn spaml.

    The only thing I know for sure is that the Anti Defamation League, and other shitbags affiliated with them are indeed involved with "white slavery" and pornography redirection.Cuz, counter-terrorism.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  • identicon
    TheOtherOtherGuy, 19 Feb 2020 @ 6:06am

    Show me religion forcing itself into politics and I'll show you religious leaders being grossly hypocritical.

    Yes, LDS, I'm talking about you.

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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